SHIP: Re: Who is the boy?

[pennylin]

No: HPFGUIDX 54372

Hi --

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Meliss9900 at a... wrote:
> <who thinks that Troels Danish proverb explains the situation 
beautifully. . 
> .What the heart is full of, the mouth spills over with>

Angua said: <<<Here's a situation that proverb explains even more beautifully:

"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not 
as a last resort!">>>>>>>>>

LOL!  Well, possibly.  I think I'd rely more on the heart being true on a day-to-day basis ("Hermioninny talks about you all the time") more than a statement made in anger and hurt.  But, that's a fair shot.  :--)

<<<<<Angua again: Hermione talking about Harry "very much" is fully and sufficiently explained by Harry:

"Yeah, because we're FRIENDS."

*Viktor* accepts Harry's explanation:  Viktor, the one who knows 
exactly how much Hermione actually talked about Harry and how much, 
if any, she talked about Ron;  Viktor, the jealous, suspicious, 
grumpy one.  If he can accept it, I think we should be able to 
stretch our minds and accept it too.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You mean, Viktor, the one who doesn't, as far we know, feel the least bit threatened by Ron as a romantic rival?  The Viktor who *does* regard Harry as a romantic rival?  The Viktor who is older and more experienced in these matters?  Yeah, okay.  I'll trust Viktor -- Harry says there's nothing going on and Viktor believes him.  Viktor does not apparently show any signs of thinking her other best friend is any threat to him though, now does he?  :--)

<<<A friend talking about a friend for some reason other than being 
secretly in love with him?   Amazing, but it could happen!>>>>>>

Possible, sure.  

<<<A friend giving a friend a farewell kiss on the cheek simply to show 
support because he's been through hell and is about to go through 
hell again?   It's not out of the realm of possibility!>>>>>>>

Yep, that's one possible interpretation.  No doubt about it.

<<<<JKR has given Hermione several of the little tell-tale signs that 
writers give their audiences when a person likes a person as more 
than a friend:  She seems to be jealous about Ron's crush on Fleur 
and takes a strong dislike to the girl.>>>>>>>>

You got it backwards.  She takes a strong dislike to Fleur from the start ....... way before she notices Ron's reaction.  She *arguably* seems annoyed about Ron's crush on Fleur.  

<<<<She questions Ron indignantly on his preference for inviting pretty girls to the Yule Ball.>>>>>>>

Wouldn't you?  Harry doesn't engage in this churlish behavior, so I'm not the least surprised that she doesn't express any problems with Harry's dating choices.

<<<<She seems to feel hurt and offended when Ron doesn't ask her 
except as a last resort.>>>>>>

:::coughs::::  Um, you might want to remind me of your logic on that one?  She seems utterly delighted that Ron is dateless and in a real fix (serves him right, that cad).  At that point, *she* already has a date.  Doesn't seem too hurt and offended to me.  She is certain *offended* that he would think she was dateless and sitting around waiting on him or anyone else.  Can't blame her there either -- again, Ron's being a cad.  Since she accepted Krum's invitation, I see no evidence that she was sitting around passively pining away for Ron or Harry.  So, the above statement seems really a tad strong, IMHO.

<<<<In an extremity of temper, she demands that 
Ron ask her to the next Ball.>>>>>>>

LOL!  Oh, c'mon.  *Demands*???!  IMHO, she's saying "*If* you ask me to the next ball other than as a last resort, I *might* think about it."  

<<<<She blushes a lot when talking to Ron about her love life.>>>>>>>

Harry's there too, don't forget.  We don't know who the blushes are meant for.  I still suspect the blushes are nothing more than a young teenage girl who really doesn't want to talk about her love life with her male best friends.  But, even assuming that the blushes are telling, there's no way to say for sure who she might be blushing about.  

<<<<She betrays no curiousity or interest about Harry's 
preference or intentions for the Yule Ball, even though the subject 
is introduced three times in her presence.>>>>>>>>>

She already has a date.  :::shrugs::::  Again, I don't see her pining away after either Harry or Ron.  I just think her heart is betraying her preferences to Krum, inadvertently (or as Melissa says, she feels that Krum is "safe").  

<<<<<<She shows not the slightest hint of hurt or offense that Harry never invites her.>>>>>>>

She's also not hurt that Ron didn't invite her.  She's offended that he tried to get her as a last-minute last-ditch date, but who wouldn't be, really?  Why must her being offended necessarily mean that she's secretly in love with Ron?  Why can't it just be evidence of Hermione's burgeoning feminism?  Hmm?

<<<<She never hints in any way that Harry should ask her out in the future.>>>>>>>>

She doesn't *hint* that to Ron either.  She angrily tells him if he's got a problem with her going with Krum to the ball, then maybe he'd better ask her first next time and not as a last resort.  Not exactly coy and flirty, is she?  :--) 
 
<<<She does not blush when talking to Harry about her love life,>>>>>>>

Sure she does.  See above.

<<<<<and she does not blush or show signs of embarrassment when her name is publicly linked to Harry's or when she publicly kisses Harry.>>>>

Of course not ------ she might feel she doesn't stand a chance with him and is doing a good job of covering up (slip-up with Krum, of course).   

<<<She shows no trace whatsoever of any hurt or disappointment when Harry 
firmly and repeatedly denies that she is his girlfriend.>>>>>>>

I can only think of one time that he does so in her presence and that's when he tells Mrs. Weasley.  Of course, maybe it's deliberate that JKR didn't pan back to Hermione to show her reaction in that instance?  You're right that if JKR wanted, she could have planted a clue there.  But, then again, maybe it's authorial misdirection.  Maybe.  It's possible.

<<<<<These are clues as well -- negative clues.  Clues to tell us that 
Hermione *doesn't* like Harry that way.  Clues that they are indeed, 
as JKR plainly said, "very platonic friends.">>>>>>>>>

Again, that interview quote relates to GoF.  She didn't say "they are and always will be very platonic friends."  

<<<<It seems to me that to maintain otherwise is the result of a stubborn 
romanticising and eroticising impulse.>>>>>>>>

Wow.  So, that's what a great number of shippers are guilty of, is it?  You realize that the H/H ship is probably about the same size as R/H ship at this point?  All these people are just insane and stubborn and unwilling to see the One True Light?  Really?  We all have different interpretations.  I don't think the R/H'ers are crazy; I just don't agree with them.  

I would also note that even if Ron and Hermione pair off in Book 5, there are 2 more books and a likely epilogue yet to go.    

Penny

=====
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