Snape/Lucius/Narcissa/TMR in hiding/Godric's Hollow/Lily, wy HP not curious

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 56890

Ladi Lyndi wrote:

<< such as when Harry believes in PoA that Snape would have 
intentionally failed him without Dumbledore. >>

Add me to the people who have already pointed out that just because 
Harry believes that doesn't prove it's true. I don't think Snape is 
unfair on marks (grades) for the year. 

Tammy Rizzo wrote:

<< Snape is not sexy. He is seductive. >>

I found Snape sexy before the first movie was ever cast. 
Contemplation of Snape leads to physical sensations about certain 
parts of one's body getting a little extra blood and therefore 
feeling tingly and a bit swollen, certain parts getting moist while 
mouth gets dry and lungs need extra oxygen: sexy, not merely 
seductive (maybe not seductive at all). I dunno why people think it 
casts doubt on his sex appeal to quote 'sallow skin, hooked nose, 
greasy long black hair, really bad attitude', as that is the 
description of quite a few boys and men with whom I've fallen in lust 
over the years. I don't disagree with those who have mentioned power, 
controlled (barely controlled) power, silken voice, poetic words, 
intelligence, wit, sarcasm, danger, the cliched female romantic urge 
to reform a bad man and make a damaged man happy with the purity of 
her love... 

Stickbook wrote:

<< Where do we rate Lucius in terms of sexiness? >>

I thought it was widely agreed, long before even the first movie was 
cast, that Lucius is VERY sexy -- I was very much afraid that the 
movie people people would screw up the casting, and much relieved by 
Jason Isaacs's performance. Lucius is handsome, elegant, rich, 
powerful, intelligent (as judged from his conspiracies), extremely 
self-controlled ... he gives the impression of being skilled at 
whatever he does ... "moving with style and ease" .... 

I worry about a listie who said that she likes that he has no 
scruples and no morals to stop him from doing whatever it takes to 
get his goal, because his goal is to protect and get the best for 
his family and she plans, as his mistress, to be one of the family 
members he's taking care of. I'm sure she's right about how he treats 
his family, but I don't think his mistresses are in that charmed 
circle: I think he's a cruel sick-o who gets off on vivisecting his 
girlfriends.

Susan XG wrote:

<< 3) What is the nature of Snape and Lucius' relationship? Are they 
just simply co-Death Eaters or does it go deeper than that? Are they 
related? Cousins maybe? Does Snape stay close to the Malfoys because 
he wants to protect Draco from Voldemort? To spy on the Malfoys 
because Lucius is one of Voldy's high ranking DEs? >>

Anja added:

<< We know almost nothing about the relationship between Lucius and 
Severus since we have never seen them talking to each other. The only 
thing we have is the sudden movement Snape makes after Harry mentions 
Malfoy's name . It seems very unlikely that they had been friends at 
school since Sirius would have probably mentioned Lucius among 
Severus's friends. Don't ask me why, but I somehow have the feeling 
that Lucius is older than Severus (although it looks a bit different 
in the movies). Maybe they met through their families , maybe at the 
DEs , we don't know that for sure. If the Snapes are (like the 
Malfoys) one of the rich , pureblooded Wizard families it is very 
likely that they met each other on some occasions. A friendship might 
have developed and in the end, Lucius managed to persuade Severus to 
become a follower of Voldemort as well. This is my take on this but I 
have to admit that it is not very convincing. I am sure JKR has a 
better idea on this ;-) >>

I agree with much that Anja said. I am convinced that Lucius is seven 
to ten years ago than Severus (and MWPP and Lily, all the same age) 
and therefore they didn't know each other in school. I believe they 
met after Severus had left school, when he was only 19 or 20 and just 
getting started in the adult world, and he developed a kind of big 
admiration for Lucius, because of all those Lucius characteristics 
that I mentioned in the 'sexy Lucius' comment above, all of which 
except intelligence are characteristics that young Severus lacked 
and very much felt the lack of. I don't think Lucius developed any 
particular liking for Severus, but pretended to be friends on purpose 
to recruit Severus to serve Lord Voldemort (because Lucius recognized 
that Severus was a VERY talented potion maker who could be useful). 

I believe, until that famous 'sudden movement', Severus still felt 
liking, friendship, and admiration for Lucius, and therefore deluded 
himself into believing Lucius's Imperius Curse excuse. The 'sudden 
movement' was the result of Severus suddenly realizing that he had 
been fooled by Lucius, that Lucius really had been and still was 
loyal to the Dark Side.

I believe that Severus's fondness for Draco is perfectly sincere 
(he's not faking it to make a good impression on Lucius, he's not 
faking it on purpose to make Draco a weak spoiled brat who will fail 
in life) and it results from Draco's resemblance to Lucius ... they 
look so much alike that Severus attributes all the same virtues 
(intelligence, self-control, power) to Draco that Lucius has.

Severus 'liking' Lucius, etc, doesn't HAVE to be at all erotic, but 
in my fanfic it is.

Elizabeth, a rude mechanical, wrote:

<< It seems very clear that Narcissa Malfoy is not a Death Eater. But 
there ARE some married couples that are both members of Voldie's 
circle. Why Lucius, but not Narcissa? 

I think that one sign of Voldemort's evilness is his disrespect for 
women (so, I think skilled and powerful witches will be his downfall, 
because their gender makes him think them incompetent and harmless, 
so he is off his guard) and one result of his prejudice is that he 
doesn't want to have ANY females in his Death Eater inner circle. 
According to me, Mrs Lestrange is the only female Death Eater and he 
only accepted her because she is SO FANATICALLY DEVOTED to him.

<< Is it possible that she doesn't approve? >>

I personally believe that Narcissa is completely on the same team as 
Lucius, meaning they have the same goals and values, as well as they 
like each other. To me, she completely approves of Dark Arts, 
bribery, murder, and any other methods of increasing her [marital] 
family's wealth and power. I expect she also despises Muggles and 
wants to exclude Muggle-borns from the wizarding community. 

<< Elisabeth, (who believes it possible that Narcissa is an Evans,
and didn't receive her invite because she is a "mudblood"...) >>

I can't imagine that Lucius Malfoy would EVER marry a "Mudblood". I 
CAN imagine that Narcissa and Petunia are sisters, but I have it that 
Petunia was the older sister, cast out by her snobbish Pureblood 
family for being a Squib, and adopted by the Evanses, a Muggle family 
who somehow were in contact with the wizarding world. I'm thinking 
she was about two years old at the time (how could they be sure so 
young that she was a Squib?), old enough to know that she was losing 
her familiar home and being rejected by mummy and daddy. Old enough 
to know that 'magic' had somehow caused this. That would explain both 
her hatred of magic and her deep sense of insecurity. Deep insecurity 
is why her sibling rivalry of Lily went SO over-the-top (and being 
able to tell herself "of course they like Lily better, she's their 
REAL child" didn't help) and deep insecurity is also why she tries so 
hard to be better (including more normal) than the neighbors.

JOdel wrote:

<< Who CARES what the villagers think? Tom Riddle didn't disapear for 
their sake. He was hiding from the *wizarding* authorities. >>

I can't disagree with Annemehr's evidence that the Ministry didn't 
have AK detectors and doesn't care if Muggles are murdered, but still 
I personally believe that the Ministry did make inquiries into this 
dramatic multiple death (which might have called Muggle attention 
to the wizarding world) and did seek to interview TMR about it. I 
believe that the 'investigation' was very shallow and it cleared TMR 
very quickly, when he was given an alibi by the highly respected and 
powerful family of one of the 'useful friends' he met in Slytherin 
House ... maybe Lucius Malfoy's father ... 

I agree with Annemehr that TMR spent those missing years working on 
his immortality. I believe he didn't start to recruit followers and 
try to seize control of the wizarding world until he had succeeded 
in becoming immortal.

Judy Penumbra wrote:

<< Has anyone made a suggestion as to the exact location of Godric's 
Hollow?
If you look at a map of England, Bristol (which Hagrid mentions 
flying over) and Surrey are in a straight line going slightly 
northwest to slightly southeast of London. Problem is that Bristol is 
bang on the western shore of England. If Hagrid flew the most direct 
route, it would make absolutely no sense to overfly Bristol unless he 
were coming from Wales, or Ireland, or much more interestingly, the 
legendary isle of Avalon, (if JKR nudged it's imaginary location a 
bit more south of the Isle of Man.) If Godric's Hollow was indeed 
located on Avalon, then there are quite a few intriguing conjectures 
that could come of it. [Please note there are other speculative 
locations of Avalon, but many sources do place it  somewhere out in 
St. George's Channel] Flying to Surrey from anywhere else in England 
or Scotland one would miss Bristol entirely, unless, of course, there 
was a reason for stopping there... >>

There is a theory that Godric's Hollow is in Wales because someone 
looked up St. Godric and discovered that he earned his sainthood by 
being a hermit in WALES. Penny Linsenmeyer (our listmom) posted 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrypotteranonymous/message/1182 on 
Fri Mar 24, 2000 saying:

<< The only thing I found so far that looks close is "Godre'r-graig." 
This appears to be a fairly remote village in southern Wales, nearest 
to Swansea. >>

However, there is a 'missing 24 hours' 
(http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/timeline_potters2.html#Hagrid ) 
between the time the house in Godric's Hollow was destroyed and the 
time that Hagrid delivered baby Harry to Privet Drive. With 24 hours 
for travel, he could have taken the baby from Godric's Hollow to 
Hogwarts, from Hogwarts to Devon, from Devon to Ireland, and finally 
from Ireland to Privet Drive. 

Altho' your Avalon suggestion is fascinating. 

Pat Gruenke wrote:

<< Why is Harry more obsessed with his father than his mother? >>

I say it's a side-effect of Lily having put an AI (artifical 
intelligence) image of herself into his mind, to be his loving parent 
even while abused by Dursleys, as told in my recent post: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/56252

<< In addition, so far we've always seen Harry wondering and trying to 
find out about his father, and not about his mother. Some say that's 
a plot device because JKR is saving some big surprise about Lily, and 
some say it's normal because Harry is 11 to 14 so far, puberty and 
adolescence, and much more concerned about a male image to identify 
with. But *I* say that he doesn't search so much for Lily because, 
unknown to himself, he already has her with him. >>