Harry's importance and threats of expulsion

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 57210

Bboy wrote: 

> >
> >In the past, someone wrote a long essay on the stages of moral
> >development, and pointed out that, as strange as it may seem, 
obeying the rules is a very low stage of moral development. Sometimes
> >disregarding the rules is the morally correct thing to do.
> 

Troels wrote: 

> That it is sometimes necessary to break rules in order to do
> the 'right thing' should be obvious to most, but claiming
> that obeying rules is a low stage of moral development is,
> IMO, a morally reprehensible statement. Rules are created
> to allow a society to function. Disregard the rules and you
> destabilise the society - it really is that simple!
> Creating and maintaining complex societies are, IMO, a
> victory for human morals. The realisation that we must
> submit ourselves to the common rules to make that
> society work is perhaps the highest moral state humanity
> has yet achieved. The next step is when the rules become
> unnecessary.
> 

BBoy doesn't need me to defend him, but I seem to remember the essay 
he was talking about, and other discussions we've had on the topic, 
to mean that blindly obeying the rules indicates low moral 
development.

The Nazis who flipped the switch at the concentration camps, 
overseers who whipped the hide off slaves, crooked accountants who 
cooked books, etc... were all obeying orders, or, in their 
world, "the rules."
Troels: 

> The problem is that he also often breaks the rules for
> reasons that are selfish or downright stupid - not very
> moral there.
> 
> PS-9: The Midnight Duel. Breaking school rules just to
> get a chance to pursue a personal vendetta.
> 
> PS-14: Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback. Breaking both
> wizard laws and school rules to help a criminal whom he
> happens to like.
> 
> CoS-5: The Whomping Willow. Theft, breaking the
> International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy (the very
> reason for the Ministry of Magic) and probably also the
> Decree for Reasonable Restriction of Underage sorcery.
> 
> CoS-12: The Polyjuice Potion. Hiding information from
> the Headmaster because he fears it might make him look
> bad - even /after/ he's had Dumbledore's assurance that
> he is not under suspicion.


I was with you on the first three. Harry was baited into the Midnight 
Duel by Draco, but yeah, he could have showed better judgement (ickle 
Drakiekins ALWAYS does the right thing, though, so maybe the rules 
weren't broken - sarcasm) 

"Help a criminal who he happens to like" is a shade harsh, don't you 
think? We're also talking about Harry's first friend in the Wizard 
World, and really, first friend ever. 

And actually, he wasn't helping Hagrid break more rules. Norbert was 
going to Romania, which he would have done had Hagrid gotten caught. 
He was helping Hagrid not get caught. 

I agree about the car, but c'mon, that "damage" to the Whomping 
Willow was just pure Snape griping. I have a feeling that, had the 
boys hit the dumpsters behind the kitchens, Snape would have yelled 
at them for breaking valuable trash containers.

And in the cases of the car and Norbert, they get caught and get 
punished. Perhaps not as severe as Snape would have wanted (or some 
on the list) but their actions were not without consequences.

But the fourth one is not a breaking of a rule. It is perhaps poor 
judgement -- had he told Dumbledore about hearing the voices, 
Dumbledore might have figured out the basilisk thing -- but you 
cannot be compelled to share your innermost thoughts with a teacher. 
If that's the RULE, that your thoughts are available to authority 
figures, then sign me up for rule-breaking!

> Using illegal means to spy on Malfoy who they suspect
> just because they don't like him (OK - Hermione is the
> one who suggests this).
> 

They were wrong about Malfoy, but there were certainly other reasons 
to suspect him besides dislike. He screamed "You'll be next, 
Mudbloods" among a "mass of students" (Pg 106, CoS) when they found 
Mrs. Norris petrified.

Salazar Slytherin, the kids discovered, was the originator of the 
Pureblood is Best Doctrine and Draco certainly espouses that point of 
view, to the point of openly, without regard to his audience, calling 
for their death.

Any reasonable investigator would take a look at the kid. And since 
Harry is going to be investigated simply because he's a Parselmouth, 
I think we've established that what you say (and how you say it) can 
bring down suspicion. Sorry, no Draco-persecution here.

> PoA-10: The Marauder's Map. Going to Hogsmeade for fun
> even after he has realised why he was certain to be
> prevented from doing it. Repeating it after Christmas.

And again, he suffered consequences, not in the form of punishment, 
but in the form of a lecture from Lupin that seemed to really get to 
him. 
 
> PoA-16: Professor Trelawney's Prediction. Going down
> to Hagrid as if they were the only ones capable of
> comforting him.

Wha???? C'mon, this is a reach. "Only ones capable of comforting him."

They are his friends. They wanted to help, but I don't see how that 
translates to what you say is blatant arrogance. 


> >It's just that Harry's life is far more complex than most other
> >students. He is faced with complex situations that other student 
will
> >never have to face. I would say that his rule breaking that falls 
into
> >the catagory of mischief is probably on par with his classmates.
> 
> Nope!
> His transgressions are worse that most. Stealing and flying the
> car in CoS and going to Hogsmeade in PoA are the worst cases.


And as I said, brought punishments...

 > I'll remind you that what is right in that case is actually
> upholding the laws, while the easy way out is letting
> Voldemort and cohorts run roughshod over any rules they
> don't like (like e.g. that you're not allowed to kill
> Muggles).
>

Whose laws? Fudge's? I have a feeling a LOT of those rules are going 
to be broken very soon, and will be justifiable each time.

What if Fudge, citing the rules, tries to remove Dumbledore? Or 
Snape? Or what if Harry is locked up for being a Parselmouth? All of 
those actions could happen under the rules as they exist.

What if Fudge creates a rule that says that all Muggle-borns must be 
sequestered in a "resort" (camp) for their own "protection"?

And although the RIGHT way, under the rules you've set forth, for 
Harry and Ron to try to get Hermione out of the camp is to lobby the 
Magic Parliament (if there is such a thing), print up posters, form 
political action groups, make commercials, and somehow earn the money 
that Lucius Malfoy has to bribe politicians, maybe that's not going 
to work. (And would be a VERY dull book, besides.)

Darrin
-- Magic Parliament would be an OK band name