[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry and Morality

[Troels Forchhammer]

No: HPFGUIDX 57328

At 18:55 07-05-03 -0700, Ladi lyndi wrote:

>--- Troels wrote:
> > I /like/ Harry's flaws - he is sufficiently
> > unbelieveable as
> > it is and that might be why I prefer to
> > emphasise his faults
> > rather than gloss them over, which I feel you
> > are doing here.
> > I relish it when Harry is stupid or immoral -
> > it makes me
> > better capable of believing in him.
>
>
>Lynn:
>
>I don't think people are trying to gloss over
>Harry's faults as much as to defend him against a
>Zero Tolerance attitude.  At least that's the
>impression I've gotten from some of these posts.
>It's as if people expect Harry to never make a
>mistake, to never break a rule, to always be
>perfect and when he isn't, the only explanation
>for his not being expelled or given a harsher
>punishment is because he's Harry.

I see what you mean.
I know I am not the only one to sometimes express
myself in stronger language than is really necessary
when defending a position. I may have reacted to
such language without looking up the history of
the discussion.

Having read the last couple of mails on the subject,
I think that many of us are trying to say the same
things, but get confused by each other's choice of
words - I may easily be responsible for this as
English is not my native language and I therefore
sometimes misinterpret the nuances of English phrases.

<snipping much that I agree completely with>

>Yep, I agree that Harry knew going into Hogsmeade
>was wrong and that he was hoping he wouldn't get
>caught doing it too.  It was actually his doing
>that that made me start liking Harry because it
>was such a kid thing to do.

Yes - that and the car (while Ron suggested it,
Harry was just as excited at the idea ;-)

That is exactly what I meant when I wrote that
Harry's faults made him more realistic for me.

[...]
>While Harry didn't get punished as some may have
>liked, Harry did learn a huge lesson which developed
>his moral conscience in a way expulsion, detention
>or point taking just wouldn't have done.  And isn't
>that supposed to be the point, learning and
>developing?

Exactly.
The punishment is, IMO, rather irrelevant. The
important thing is what Harry learns from the
experience - both in this case and when they
stole the car in CoS we see him realising that
it was wrong and sincerely regretting his
actions. That is, IMO, far more illustrative
than seeing him suffer a detention with Lockhart ;-)

>Perhaps a difference is that I don't see these as
>faults but rather as being a more realistic
>character.

My use of the word 'fault' may faulty ;-)
I don't know what else to call it though. We
say that 'Errare humanum est' and mean, IMO,
that all humans err, but also that it is inhuman
not to err. Harry's errors of judgement make
him more human, more realistic.

>I like that Harry's not perfect and I'm not going
>to pick on the kid for being a kid.

Well put. I never intended to pick on him - I
wanted to draw attention to his errors of
judgement and unjustified breaking of rules,
but not to berate him for it.

Would it, BTW, be better to refer to Harry's
'imperfections' than to his 'faults'?

Troels