Time Turner operation

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 57889

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, GulPlum <hp at p...> wrote:
> ...edited...
> 
> At 23:47 13/05/03 , Steve wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > We know magic can be modified by intend, or, perhaps more
> > correctly, our observations of events in the story would seem to 
> > imply that, and it is a popular theory.
> >
> >So I speculate that the magic of the Time Turner was modified by
> >Hermione intent. She knew that the place she needed to be if she 
> > was going to effectively help, was the entrance hall. So she 
> > coupled the changing in time of the Time Turner with her desire 
> >to be in another more effective location.


GulPlum reponds:
> 
> Surely the most effective location at which to "drop" Harry & 
> Hermione would have been the edge of the Forest? 
> 

bboy_mn:
Sure it is, if you have the luxury of a long leasurely strategic
analysis of the situation. Hermione on the other hand had the idea
thrust upon her and was under pressure to act immediately. Under
pressure to act before she even knew what she was going to do. 

Given her haste, and the point in time she was returning to, her first
thoughts could have very easily been the Entrance Hall. Once at the
Entrance Hall and safely in the closet, she had time to reflect,
discuss with Harry, and come up with  a plan of action. That plan of
action told her, she needed to wait in the forest. But without the
plan of action, I'm not sure she knew the best place to be, but she
certainly knew it wasn't the hospital wing. 

All I said, is that her intent might have put her in a more effective
place, no implication that that was the MOST effective place to be.

Let me see if I understand 'Close Enough'. At the point in time 3
hours prior to being in the hospital room, the original Hermione was
in or near the Entrance Hall, therefore, the Time Turner moved
TT!Hermione to the same general vicinity, but NOT to the exact same
location. 

Other examples, H/R/H climb the stairs. Harry and Ron turn back to
look and Hermione is suddenly at the bottom of the stairs (the short
version). Except, Hermione didn't time turn into the location at the
bottom of the stairs, she time turned OUT of the location at the top
of the stairs, and presumably, through her intent to be in a location,
ended up near the classroom for her next (actually alternate) previous
class. She ran from the alternate previous class to the location at
the bottom of the stairs.


> 
> Harry's intent appears to be irrelevant as he is taken completely by 
> surprise in all respects.
> 

bboy_mn:
Exactly right, Harry had no intention because he didn't know what the
heck was going on. He was just along for the ride. Although, if he had
been in a position to have formed some alternate intent, it certainly
could have interferred with Hermione's intent. 

> I therefore submit that the only rational explanation without 
> inducing or inferring facts not stated in canon is my "close enough"
> theory (thanks for the name, Darrin). :-)
> 

bboy_mn:

We see Hermione appear near locations where she has just been, but you
can only induce and infer why she appeared in those locations. Whether
those induction and inferences lead you to 'close enough' or 'magical
intent', they are none the less both based on deductions and
inferences not stated as fact.



> ...edited...  The "close enough" theory is fully consistent with all
> known uses of the Time Turner and the application of Occam's Razor.
> 
> --
> GulPlum AKA Richard, who has to rush off but will be back

bboy_mn:

'All know uses' prior to the rescue attempt, all occur within the
confinds and context of school where all students are frequently and
repeatedly seen in the same locations at the same time. Well, when I
say 'at the same time', of course, I only mean one instance of a given
individual at a time. 

So since all prior uses of the Time Turner occur between classes,
where else would we expect to see Hermione except in the halls between
classes with all the other students? The nature of the context,
dictates that there is no other logical place for her to be. Her
presents, doesn't necessarily imply any inherent aspect of the
internal workings of the Time Turner.

As far as Occam's Razor, I don't see 'Magical Intent' as all that
complicated a solution to the problem. 

Also, I'm not demanding that my solution is THE solution, I just
wanted to remind people that 'magical intent' can modify the effects
of charms, spells, curses, and some other magic. Just want people to
add that to their data banks as they analysed the possibilities.

But then who really knows.

bboy_mn