[HPforGrownups] Snape, Dumbledore and Harry with a side of MD

[Morgan D.]

No: HPFGUIDX 57979

Grey Wolf said: 
> > > Dumbledore, according to MD, knows that the chamber exists, not 
> > > where to find it, and knows that monster is a basilisk, but not 
> > > how it moves around the castle. This isn't Dumbledore's plan. He 
> > > couldn't stop it 50 years ago, and he cannot stop it now,  
> > > because he is looking for a needle in a haystack. He knows 
> > > Voldemort has to be involved, but doesn't know how.

Morgan D.: 
Let me see if I got this right. Dumbledore knew the monster in the
chamber was a basilisk since Moaning Myrtle's death. He knew a
Parselmouth could control it. In the night of Hallowe'en, he knew the
chamber had been opened and that the basilisk was "loose" in the castle
(in fact, being controlled by someone who let the beast hunt inside the
school). 

Now, about a month ago while working on the Hogwarts Letters project, I
made some calculations to figure when the Duelling Club scene took
place, and I ended up with the idea that it was sometime around the
third week of December. (Sorry if this is hardly accurate, JKR's dates
are hard to figure.) So only a few weeks after learning the basilisk
was around, Dumbledore learned he had the means to locate it. 

Because, if he knows it's a basilisk and if he knows Harry is a
Parselmouth, he knows Harry has been hearing voices. And he doesn't
have to risk Harry's life, or force him to do anything he doesn't want
to. All he has to do is ask, "Harry, please tell me where the voices
come from, help me open the door." 

When Dumbledore asks Harry if he has something to tell him, Harry says
no. But Dumbledore already knows what Harry doesn't want to tell. So
the scene works to inform Dumbledore that Harry wants to solve the
problem on his own. However, Harry won't solve the problem for many
months yet. And meanwhile, students will meet the basilisk and only the
most incredible, unrealistic kind of luck that only happens in fairy
tales spare the victims from dying. 

Gomes asked:
> > And if he knew there was a basilisk inside, why didn't he take 
> > other measures to defeat it, like bringing more roosters to the 
> > castle?

And Pip!Squeak countered:
> Wrong question. What you should be asking is: 'why are there 
> roosters at Hogwarts *at all*'?
> Figure it out. JKR estimates that there are 1000 pupils, there are 
> certainly a minimum 400 or so pupils. How many eggs is that per day?

Morgan:
I don't believe in "wrong questions". I think Pip!Squeak's question is
interesting as another possible sign that JKR didn't make any serious
calculation about the number of pupils, etc. On the other hand, like
Pip!Squeak also suggested:

> I know JK Rowling OBE is bad at maths, but she has referred to 
> Hagrid's vegetable patch as 'small' more than once. I think she's 
> quite aware that Hogwarts doesn't grow its own food, and is trying 
> to imply that Hagrid grows vegetables (and keeps chickens) as a 
> hobby.

Morgan:
I must say that was my idea too: the roosters and the vegetable patch
are Hagrid's. 

But that doesn't answer Gomes' question, which happens to be a question
of mine too. No matter to whom the roosters belonged, they were there.
They could be used. Ginny killed them for that very reason. So why not
fill the whole castle with roosters? 

Grey Wolf pointed out:
> But there were roosters in the castle. There have been for 50 years
> and more, I'm sure. And they weren't enough. 

Morgan:
Probably because nobody tried to use them against the basilisk, since
they couldn't locate it. Ginny kills them, I think, precisely to keep
anyone from trying that. But now Dumbledore can locate the basilisk if
he wants to (ask Harry!) and the staff can therefore try to place the
roosters where they'll be effective. 

Grey Wolf suggested:
> Let's say Dumbledore noticed the connection to the
> bathroom. 
> Now what? Let's go even further and say he discovers the snake etched
> in the handbasin. Still this takes him nowhere. Without Parseltongue,
> he cannot go further than that.

Morgan:
But he has Parseltongue on his side since December at least (presuming
Dumbledore didn't know about the zoo incident in PS, or hadn't guessed
on his own that Harry "inherited" Parseltongue from his first encounter
with Voldemort). Unless he thought Harry could be the one who opened
the chamber, and apparently he didn't. 

Grey Wolf said:
> Dumbledore does take measures to protect the students, but students 
> are, by nature, unruly and that makes them difficult to protect. And 
> certain measures aren't particularly useful. Killing roosters is
> easy, 
> and filling the entire Hogwarts with roosters is not. And this is Tom
> Riddle we are talking about - roosters are a minor inconvineance. The
> teachers were on alert, and measures were taken. But there is no such
> thing as a foolproof defence against a creature that kills by sight, 
> moves undetected and is mortally venomous. When you get right down to
> it, there is no such thing as a perfect defence for *anything* -
> there is always a way to circunvent it.

Morgan: 
What measures he takes to protect the students? Cancelling the night
activities, the students being escorted all the time by teachers, those
measures were only taken when Hermione and Penny were petrified, after
Easter. What measures were taken to protect the students between
Hallowe'en and Easter?

I don't think we can say for sure if the roosters would have been
useful or not, since no one really tried that. The fact that Riddle did
make a point of getting rid of that leads me to believe he thought of
them as more than a "minor inconvenience". 

There is no foolproof defence? Of course not. But isn't *some* defence
better than no defence at all?  

Grey Wolf's opinion is:
> I don't think Dumbledore 
> could've done more than he did, short of closing the school and
> sending 
> everyone home. But leaving those children uneducated when Voldemort
> is stirring is even more dangerous than the basilisk could ever be.

Morgan:
Better dead than uneducated? No, I can't agree with that. Especially
because at the time of CoS Voldemort is doing nothing but "stirring",
as you say. He doesn't have a body. As for his diary-persona, he's
INSIDE Hogwarts. The kids would have been a lot safer at home. 

Honestly, I think Dumbledore did close to nothing to protect the
students. I can either believe that he thought of the potential victims
as pawns to be sacrificed in the larger game (training Harry to defeat
Voldemort), or that JKR's plot for that particular book has so many
holes it can hardly stand. 

Just my humble opinion,

Morgan D.
Hogwarts Letters - http://www.hogwartsletters.hpg.com.br

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