Lily Evans Potter relationship to Voldemort

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 58072

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, rayheuer3 at a... wrote:
> Darrin, 
> 
> We seem to be largely in agreement on this.  Voldemort *always* intended 
to  kill Lily *after* he killed Harry.  Lily's sacrifice is what broke 
> Voldemort's power and saved Harry.
> 

Gawrsh... someone agrees with me out here? I don't know what to do!

> I'm not so sure about that.  A mother defending her child is not something to 
> be brushed aside, even by a megalomaniac like Voldemort.  I think he 
wanted  to make Lily suffer by watching both deaths.  Of course, this would 
seem to  focus Voldemort's hatred on Lily, and lead to tons of speculation as 
to what  their personal relationship might have been. 


V-Mort doesn't strike me as having a good grasp of maternal bonds. I 
understand that a mother protecting her child IS powerful, but I'm just not sure 
V-Mort would. The "you silly girl" really just jumps out at me as V-Mort 
considering her beneath notice. Add in that she's a Muggle-born and she's 
even more useless, in his eyes.

Whoops. His bad.

But so long as the past relationship, if any, between Lily and V-Mort is one of 
special hatred, rather than a special reason V-Mort would want to keep her 
alive, then it is plausible.

But the question of "trying not to kill Lily" only comes up if 
> Harry dies first.  What happened instead is that Lily planted herself between 
> a homicidal maniac and his target.  This is NOT the path to long, happy life.
> 


Actually, it has come up. V-Mort giving two verbal warnings and taunting 
Harry later about how his mother didn't have to die has been latched onto as 
V-Mort wanting to spare her. I don't agree.

I'd feel better about this if canon indicated more that Lily jumped in the way of 
the blast, but it is inconclusive at best. The 'stand aside" indicates that she 
was in the way, he told her to move, she didn't, he shrugged his scaly 
shoulders, and blasted her. 

Sorry, I don't believe V-Mort gave two whits about her living. Perhaps it would 
have been more delicious to kill her last -- or have his way with her before 
killing her, (EWWWWWWW!) -- but in the end, it just didn't matter.


> Now we come to the coulda/shoulda/woulda analysis of that little scene.  
Why  didn't Lily use her wand?  Why didn't she try a binding spell?  Why did 
she  just stand there pleading with him like a helpless Muggle?

One idea I had is that, for the sacrifice spell to work, she would have to be 
completely passive and non-violent. But I dislike the entire sacrifice spell 
concept to begin with.

I kind of like to think of it the same way as Harry protecting Wormtail and then 
Wormtail has a magical debt. Harry didn't recite an incantation, or drink one of 
Snape's potions, or had Dumbledore place a charm on him. It just happened 
because he did a good thing.

I hope the magical protection given to Harry because his mom sacrificed 
herself operates on the same principle.


> Is a wand in the WW like a gun in the Old West?  Something that one has 
with  them constantly even when theoretically safe?  Hogwarts students and 
teachers  tend to have them all the time, except while sleeping.  Harry's wand 
is  locked away in the trunk while he's with the Dursleys, but he seems to keep 
> it with him while with the Weasleys, and took it with him to the Quidditch 
> World Cup.  So the answer seems to be "yes", but the house in Godrick's 
> Hollow was (IIRC) attacked at night, and it was supposedly protected by the 
> Secret Keeper spell.  James and Lily may have been sleeping when 
attacked and  had no chance to get their wands.

James talks about holding him off, so unless he planned to do it with his fists, 
he probably had a wand.


> OR, Lily may have realized that there was no point to dueling with someone 
as  powerful as Voldemort and tried to use feminine wiles, emotional 
arguments, and (if she got close enough) a good old-fashioned knee to the 
groin against  a more powerful adversary.
> 

Darrin
-- If I was in the wizard world, I'd have the Iron Protective Cup spell cast like... 
forever.