Lily and the deal with the devil

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 58184

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
> 
> This isn't exactly a new theory, but in all the ruminating about 
why  Voldemort would want to save Lily, is it not possible that Lily 
had been working for Voldemort, and that Lily had betrayed James?

It's new to me. I must not have seen it before. Ooooh, what a fun 
theory! It'll make people go "NO! NOT TRUE!" but then have them 
scrambling through canon to try and disprove it. Nice work. 

Just to prove that I really am crazy, I'm going to try and support 
AND deny your points with further evidence. That's how much I love 
stuff like this. :)

> I don't believe that there is any Canon evidence that rules out 
Lily as a traitor. Lucius tells Harry that his parents were 
meddlesome fools, but this does not in itself rule out Lily turning 
bad.
> 

Support: If V-Mort truly had such a highly-placed mole as Lily, he 
wouldn't have told anyone else about it, even Lucius, who, if he 
isn't the right-hand guy, is very highly-ranking. So, Lucius, in 
taunting Harry, would not have known Lily was a traitor.

Denial: Lucius referring to the Potters as meddlesome fools indicates 
that they were actively fighting against V-Mort, not just kind of 
hanging around, minding their own business and having a baby that 
would grow up to defeat V-Mort. So, Lily seems to have been part of 
the fight.


> Supposing that Lily "realised" that James was a marked man, and 
came to believe that there was nothing that would save him. She might 
> then have decided that by giving him in, she would save Harry. We 
> already know that Voldemort "shows as little mercy to his followers 
> as his enemies" p. 216 PS (UK edition), so once he had told Lily to 
> step out of the way, he would not have made any greater effort to 
> save her: her life was immaterial to him, it was Harry's he wanted.
> Voldemort could have led Lily to believe that if she handed him 
> James he would spare Harry. Once this was not the case, then Lily 
> tried to prevent him killing Harry and was herself murdered.
 

Support: Thank you for writing your theory to acknowledge my "He 
didn't try THAT hard to save Lily" concern. As has been said by many, 
a mother will do anything to protect her baby. Does that include 
turning on the husband? Especially if, perhaps, James was the one who 
dragged them into the fight to begin with and endangered them?

Denial: How do we reconcile this with the Secret-Keeper and all the 
precautions they took? And again, if V-Mort was trying to kill Harry 
because of a threat he represented, and D-Dore figured that out, it 
follows that he would have told Lily and James. Surely, Lily would 
have realized that nothing passive -- that is, trying to cut a deal --
 she could have done would have saved Harry. And we're also talking 
about the former Head Girl of Hogwarts. Surely she isn't so stupid as 
to believe V-Mort's promises?

> Lily's overwhelming love for Harry could have been the reason for 
> her betraying James. I still find it strange that in her defence of 
> herself and Harry, she did not run as James suggested, but locked 
> herself and Harry in his bedroom. She could have thrown Harry from 
> the bedroom window and then made a run for it. (After all, if 
> Neville can bounce, why not Harry). I know this does smack of movie 
> contamination, but as it was the one scene written especially by 
> JKR, I do believe that it is evidence of canon intent. Why did Lily 
> just stay there? She would have known that a locked door would not 
> have stopped Voldemort. I suppose she might have panicked, and in 
> the heat of the moment resorted to a Muggle-defence, but I do 
wonder if it was simply because she did not want to hear the battle, 
and thought that she and Harry were not in danger.
 
Support: Yeah, why DID she just stick around? The impression we get 
from the books and from the movie -- remember, the one scene 
considered canon -- is that Lily not only didn't run, but didn't try 
to defend herself.

Denial: First, James was the one who told Lily he'd hold V-Mort off. 
She didn't suggest it. As far as the throwing Harry from a bedroom 
window, well, we don't know if he'd exhibited anything magical yet or 
not, but what if he was a Squib? Too risky. And again, we're talking 
about banking your baby's life on the trust of V-Mort's word? Nope. 
Don't buy that one. I could see a mother being willing to sacrifice 
her husband in order for her baby to live, but I would think she'd 
need a bit stronger guarantee than that.


> I of course do not want this theory to be right. How hard it would 
> be for Harry to realise that he was saved by a mother's love so 
> strong that it was willing to sacrifice his father. In a way, it's 
a bit like the ESE! Lupin, as much as I dislike it, it remains a 
> distinct possibility.

Support: Well, this would be the ultimate twist, I think.

Denial: But I think the twist would make it too twisted. Lily's 
sacrifice is, I believe, the pivotal event in the story (not 
necessarily the books, but the saga itself.) One Muggle born woman, 
apparently just through love, gave her baby the power to defeat the 
most evil wizard of modern times. I do hope that is not tainted.

Darrin
-- But this is just too much fun. :)