British culture viewed through the Potterverse. was Re: JKR and the Indan

[psychic_serpent]

No: HPFGUIDX 58392

Anita Sathe <lumos28 at y...> > wrote:
 
> <<<I have always found it quite interesting that there seem to be 
> no foreign students at Hogwarts other than the Indian Patil 
> sisters, apart from Seamus, who seems to be Irish - correct me if 
> I'm wrong.  
> >>>

"Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:

> In some respects it is strange that there are no "overseas" 
> students mentioned. If Draco was nearly sent to Durmstrang, I 
> would expect some students to come from abroad. However, I do not 
> thing of the Patil sisters or Cho, Dean etc as being foreign. To 
> me, they are British.


Me:

Yes, their families have probably been in the country for a minimum 
of twenty years.  Certainly JKR doesn't write their speech as 
accented, like Fleur's and Viktor's.  It's possible that even if 
families from eastern or southern Europe came to live in the UK, 
they'd send their kids to Durmstrang and Beauxbatons, as a kind of 
family tradition, so that could also explain the fairly heterogenous 
population at the school.


"Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:

> I believe that JKR has tried to represent British society in 
> Hogwarts. The last census in 2001 showed that around 8.8% of the 
> population came from an ethnic minority. Given that in Harry's 
> Gryffindor year alone, there are 2 students from an ethnic 
> background – Dean and Parvati – JKR could even be accused of 
> skewing the population slightly.


Me:

That may be an anomaly.  We don't know enough about the ethnic 
backgrounds of the rest of the students in Harry's year.  We only 
know for sure about the Patil twins and Dean, and we only know about 
Dean from the Scholastic edition of the first book, as the 
Bloomsbury version did not specify his skin color.  The only other 
student (besides the above) ever described as non-white is Angelina 
Johnson.  Two students described as 'black' (possibly of African 
extraction), two with names strongly implying a south Asian 
background and one with a name implying an east Asian background is 
hardly a tidal-wave of non-Anglo-Saxon students.

"Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:

> I'm still not sure quite why the Potterverse has become so huge on 
> an international scale – whether it is because of the Britishness, 
> or in spite of it! I suspect that it is probably a combination of 
> the 2. 


Me:

I don't think it's the Britishness, really.  There are also American 
pop-culture phenomenons that are popular around the world--I know a 
slew of British Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans, and the new Matrix 
film was released simultaneously around the world, rather than 
trickling across the globe.  I think the appeal is in the tale that 
JKR is spinning and the combination of humor, drama and mystery that 
infuses it.  

"Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:

> I never cease to cringe when posters mention Harry's graduation; 
> British kids don't graduate from school, so if Harry graduates 
> from Hogwarts that will be another first! I have come to 
> understand why posters make Harry graduate, but I won't believe it 
> unless it happens.

I cringe now when I see that too, because I've seen enough Brits 
write about that, but what I don't think Brits understand is that 
Americans and others who use this term don't usually literally mean 
someone who has gone through a formal graduation ceremony (although 
I really cringe when I find that someone has written a fanfiction 
about just such a ceremony occurring at Hogwarts).  Much of the time 
what I think people mean is 'when Harry is out of school' when they 
say, 'when Harry graduates.'  The term is used in this country as a 
synonym for having finished the highest grade (year) at a school (so 
that you would say someone is a 'graduate' of XYZ Elementary School 
or Junior High, and also a 'graduate' of Such-and-Such High School) 
in addition to the technical definition of someone having gone 
through a graduation ceremony at the school in question (which is 
actually formally termed "commencement").  


Americans say that someone has graduated from a school whether or 
not they've actually attended a ceremony, and in fact, attendance at 
such ceremonies is not always compulsory, although that may differ 
from school to school.  If you successfully completed the highest 
grade offered at a given school you are a 'graduate' and are said to 
have 'graduated.'  This is used far more often than the Latin terms 
alumnus/alumna.  In American parlance, after Percy finished his 
seventh year, he became a Hogwarts 'graduate' and is said to 
have 'graduated.'  It doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is 
implying that he went through a ceremony of any kind if they use 
these terms in connection with him, only that he successfully 
completed his schooling.


Although some Americans really do seem to be under the impression 
that Harry may walk across a stage in a robe and mortarboard and 
receive a Hogwarts diploma, I think that many people who understand 
that this is never going to happen still use the word 'graduate'  
because in the US it's used the vast majority of the time to 
mean 'leave school.'  I think Brits may need to just understand that 
it's a language difference, and that folks who use the term are not 
necessarily delusional about what goes on in British schools, or the 
fictional Hogwarts, specifically.  Please understand that it has 
more than one meaning here and be a little more understanding of 
folks using it in this way who may not know the way that Brits use 
it (or don't, rather).


"Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
 
> Going back to the issue of ethnicity in the Potterverse, I believe 
> that it is only mentioned at all, to show that that particular 
> prejudice does not exist. That aspect of a wizard's background 
> does not matter. Prejudice is explored through the Muggle/wizard 
> divide. To have further issues of prejudice, would I think unduly 
> complicate JKR's message.


Me:

I think you're right about that.  To raise more issues other than 
human/non-human (as in Ron's remarks concerning elves, werewolves 
and giants) and wizard/Muggle-born/Squib/Muggle would complicate 
things needlessly.  She does start to stray into the territory of 
ethnic prejudice twice in GoF; first, when Fudge complains about not 
being able to communicate with the Bulgarian minister in GoF and 
then later learns that the Bulgarian minister could speak English 
and found Fudge's pantomimes amusing (although it's possible that 
the whole point of this was to paint Fudge in a poor light, which it 
does); secondly, when a character we never see, with a recognizably 
Arabic name (Ali Bashir), is said to be agitating to have flying 
carpets considered legal in Britain, instead of their being 
something Arthur Weasley would have to confiscate.  Crouch, Sr. is 
the one talking about this to Arthur at the QWC.  It's unclear 
whether this is supposed to reflect poorly on him; frankly, it 
sounds a little like he might be taking Bashir's side.


--Barb

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