[HPforGrownups] Who's whose heir or Lily was here / Re: Why the Potters

[Koticzka]

No: HPFGUIDX 58435

It becomes too complicated for me, so "let's pensive"
I have a couple of days break, so perhaps there is NOTHING new, but the
seventh seal. On the very end ;)
No cannons, just logical thinking (more or less, stress on 'less') and
guesses:

Whom is Voldie looking for? I'd rather bet Harry - considering Harry's
memories under influence of dementor's presence.
Why is Lily being asked to move aside? What is this favour for? For Voldie's
servant? Gim'me a break, fight, spells in the air and Graet Voldemort is
thinking of a servant of his? Even presuming my very favourite Snape being
his right hand (and forgeting I hate the theory of Snape attracted by
Lily) - I do not believe anything like this. Or perhaps Harry was not that
important or was underestimated (which might be Voldie's style, I possibly
could agree; perhaps).
I would rather consider Lilly's eyes and why is it so important that Harry's
are the same. Could Lilly be Slytherin descendant as a Muggle born? Unlikly,
but not impossible. According to Darrin's theories that heir does not equal
descendant, she may be a chosen one, however little sense it makes.
By the way - being more evil (even more???) by killing Harry first, and his
mother afterwards - oh, it so much trouble for poor Voldie. Would he really
care? I duobt it. If so, he would use Crutiatus (I just LUV this one)to make
her more painful or Imperio - I suppose Darrin suggested it? If someone
else - my apologies, I do not remember and I am not even trying to find
that!

Sniping mentioned Petunia - well she alived cannot be used as a prove that
Lilly is NOT descendant of one of the  Four Founders, because Petunia is a
muggle or at least a Squib and as such is not taken under consideration to
be a danger for V.

Was Lily Voldie's granddaughter? As a Muggleborn? Or adopted child? OK -
just joking, feel free to consider (I just love Molly the Evil!).
Not granddaughter in my opinion, as Voldie would not have enough time to
take care of anything else but himself and his career, power and victory in
the battle to reign  - but why not a cousin? And at last Voldie did have a
father (even if becoming a god).
I fully agree with vivamus42 - Lily would not attack Voldie - but why? The
strengh of the Dark wizard cannot be the only answer. Wouldn't one try to
fight anyway having irrational hope for wining? Neither Voldie wants to
attack Lily unless it was her CHOICE to be attacked. Strange, indeed. It
reminds me again stories of people who agreed to join prisoners resigning of
their privileges - like German during the IInd World War or Russians after
WW IInd. Lily DE??? I like that idea however do not consider it true. Again
I cannot tell why.
I do not agree with Darrin that Voldie did not try hard to spare Lily. As
for Voldie, calling twice is almost too much! And at least suspected, what
the reason was. Voldie's only passion is probably the power to reign the
world (and his mother which he has some sentiment for, however it is not so
certain), so fear for the child is quite an abstract for this egoistic and
egocentric character. Something one can observe but do not trtibute to
inteligent individuals - like him (it is ironic, spare your comments, guys!)
(and girls)

Life debt among Lily and Voldie? Hm, I do not like it, do not know why.
Perhaps because I do not believe that anything like this could attach
Voldie. As utter evil, she would neither obey such debt, nor I believe him
to surrender any charm like this.

Why Lily did not fight? a) because Voldie is a cousin (to kill a relative is
not polite!) b) to sacrifice herself and make the ancient magic work
(Darrin's theory which is more and more convincing for me, too) c) I am very
sorry, women, but I do not credit mothers with a very high intelligence in
common sense - "J'accuse!" - they acts are besed on instincts and towarded
to the childs good but it does not mean that they are WISE. So Lily could
use argumenst which seemed persuasive to her at the moment - a normal,
common person would rather have mercy in front of an innocent sweet child
and if forced to kill (by his own instinct or whatever reason) - would spare
the child which is the most beautiful and unusual of all children of
eternity. OK, when I already insulted all mothers of the world it does not
matter that I add - the common logic, not very sophisticated one - does not
work in mothers' system of thinking. Not in situation af a sudden danger,
eventually. OK. Use Crutiatus on me, but read first, when you started. No
more about mothers intelligence ;)  I exagerate to show of and I do hope to
ghet mad about my heir one day. I would not mind if I had such a reason as
Harry (would his name be Severus???). Still - different logic sustained but
passive Lily to fullfill the magic (Darrin's) is preferable!

Some pepople were wandering whether it is possible that there is only one
heir left. Yes, surely it is. Not only because the title is inherited by the
oldest in the branch, but also because branches dissapear - die. Or you have
to presume that every wizard has children (at least one!). Male or female...
Do they? All of them? No cannon that not, well even Snape could possibly be
a father. Such accidents do happen...  ;) But there might be some without
descendants, cannot they?

Female descendant would be good enough for two reasons: when lack a man,
woman would do (compare: Elisabeth I); second reason if you need more -
there is at least one religion, where female ancestor is more important -
judaism. You are a Jew when you are born from Jewish mother. OK, I do not
suppose Voldie being a Jew or JKR using this way of thinking in her books.
But there is a precedent.
Well, we can always try to walk Voldie's shoes - everyone's tends to be
sentimental in particular circumstances... Muggleborn likes Muggleborn???
EEp, forget it.

Another point which seems to be important - if Voldemort is the heir of
Slytherin, it was rather after mother (on the distaff side?).

James Potter was killed - not without the reason. I would agree him to be a
Gryffindor heir (significant that they were hiding in Godric's Hollow) or
descendant (forgive me for not repeating traces and indications leading to
that, it has been discussed so many times in so many threads).

Still they protected Harry more than themselves. It would not seem so
strange, I suppose that all loving parents should behave like this. However
the dialogue (Harry's memories again) would suggest that evyrobody is
actually conscious that the child is the reason of Voldie's visit.

As the descendant or heir of GG should not Harry be suggested Gryffindor
House instead of Slytherin (which Sorting Hat seemed to be insisted)? Blood
and his personality (hm...? hm-hm! - I can almost hear Darrin's comment...)
should mean more than anything Voldie gave him during the first attack, save
the scarf.

Being Parselmouth (again ac. to Darrin Burnett) could be another indication,
however I would lay it to the part of Voldie's pawer given to Harry during
first confrontation. Opening the Chamber of Secrets might be Lord
Voldemort's/Tom Riddle's act (if could be done by this kind of a ghost or
whatever you name the creature of the Diary) and once opened - stood opened
so Harry could only have access to it - without openning. Still, there's a
laegend that it can be openned only by the heir of S., so most probably by a
Parselmouth person. Basilisk would listen only the heir but it is just a
part of the same legend, which could be considered to be true or not.
Legends - especially in the Wizard World must be - in my opinion - something
more than in Muggle World, using our Muggle logic, so Riddle/Voldie openes
th Chamber and handles Basilisk. Harry does not. Oops, this argument works
against my theory - but all evedeences assuring what's below would wake
suspections, would they not ?

Cannot resist as Patricia Bullington-McGuire has given me an opportunity at
last to comment her Lem's quote!
>>I have trouble seeing why anyone would care whether their
great-great-great^x-grandfathers were enemies 1000+ years ago.<<
Lem would probably not agree! Perhaps 1000 years is a lot for a Muggle
leaving sometimes about 60, but wizards have longer lives, so some memories
may be more vivid. And there are individuals and whole nationes, where
conlflicts which should have been forgotten are not only still alived but
also are being the motives of most actions undertaken against the others or
animosity between nations, families. Why do I mention Lem? Because of soem
significant national features, traditions and stories (funny and true ones).
And also because of the history and political and huuman relations. Generaly
I could call stereotypes about Ukrainians, Russians, Germans and Poles in
the middle (not necessarily as victims!). More details on request, if
needed!
Inhere the battle is about power, heritage and reigning. All for one, one
for all. Blood and lineage are only the pretext to gain everything.

All above would indicate that Harry is Gryffindor after father and Slytherin
after mother...

Getting to the *point*:
1. There is no *point*. Could I possibly use Time Turner going aginst
theories forward time and read HP5, 6 and 7?
2. The Potters did not fight seriously, because they were consious Voldie
was too strong. James Potter believed in delaying Voldie and letting Lilly
escape with a child.
3. I believe Lily was related to Voldie, as his cousin she was asked to move
aside, no need to kill a relative not being GG's related. Even if she was
Voldie's relative on father's side, it is always a relative and as such
might be usuful. (Wich works both side Lilly to Voldie and backward)
But not that much not to be removed when disturbing, let us not be too
meticulous.
To match my plot she must have been related by Voldi's mother's side,
otherwise I doubt she is Slytherin's descendant. On the other hand would it
be really useless to eliminate her as a potential future competitor's
mother? If she was said to be not neccessary to be killed, she must have
been no danger to Voldie, which means, she is none of Four Founders
descendant in streight lineage.
4. James Potter had to be eliminated as GG's descendant.
5. Harry was the main Voldie's aim...? Or equal to his father...? Or was
James killed just by the way and just in case of the will to have more GG's
heirs in future? I'm getting confused at this point. Accident does not work
for me here, Voldie came there for his purpose, it is clear.
6. According to above - Harry is GG's AND NOT SS's descendant - but even if
he was - why the Sorting Hat wanted him in Slytherin House???
7. And what, the hell, about the two left Founders? Went on holidays???
Or could Harry be a heir of all Four Founders??? Or even worse - Merlin
himself?!!!!

I am working on the text ordered by a very religious man, based on The
Bible. I do not like writing it, so I am having the rest playing with
Potterworld. As Dumbledore reminds me Jesus with his very lamb-mild attitude
sometimes (yet I discussed his attitude in the different light previously
and I sustain it), I went forward. There is seven books, of course, as there
is seven classes (my educational system I went through was different - 8
classes of primary school, so 7 seems wire). An obvious fight of good and
evil. Voldie with his rising of dead and will of power pushes me further.
Perhaps killing Harry was a part of ritual or - following a prophecy - only
a part of extermination of potential future executioner? Like killing
children in the hunt for a prophet?
If the subject of prediction is conserned - the Potters did leave money to
their son. Perhaps James was really of the rich family, but quoting
tepmurt9981 and JKR:
>>Also, in PP/SS Hagrid says something along the lines of (sorry, book is
once again packed), "you didn't think that they'd leave you without any
money, did you?"<<
My books are not packed yet, I will pack them at the very last moment, but
it is just a digression. Accuse me of axageration and overinterpretation (is
it a new word I have created???) but it does sound as if they - parents -
had been preparing for a disaster. So they might have... known. Obviously
they still tried and do their best.

As I am not an expert in the subject of the Bible, my conjectures are very
loose and not precisious. Please, treat it as an invitation for further
discussion (perhaps it will also help me in my other work!)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unless:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Assumption: One becomes a true Gryffindor by choices. Being a heir of
Slytherin would mean blood connection (Salazar Slytherin's reluctance
against non-pure-bloods).

What if James is really not Gryffindor? He might be Slytherin. A Death
Eater.
For two alternative reasons: one - a spy, who has accorded to sacrifice
himself and wear the Dark Mark.
Or - second - Dark Wizard who started to wear Big Glasses to see the proper
path (not because of Lily, because Voldie would not be that eager to spare
her). Whatever the reason was, James might had to be killed as a traitor of
Voldie's crowd, which does not explain why Harry was targeted...
James-the-Slytherin would explain why Harry had been suggested to join
Slytherin House.

I do not know what to do about Lily ("step aside, girl").
I will work my new thoery out by June the 21st, hopefully! ;)

OK. I give up. Perhaps Harry IS Voldie's twin. "Yes... you have a twin
sis... brother I mean. And do not uderestimate the Dark Side of the Power".
Anything will do during the night between renovation and moving sitting an
packages and suitcases (almost), feeling every muscle and dreaming of doing
nothing but reading marvelous innovative theories such as Evil!Molly which
is not impossible either.
And I vote - let's ban Time Traveling unless it is used for getting further
parts of "Harry Potter and Yahoo Groups" or I get addicted to Aspirine for
my head-aches! ;)

Koticzka who is not Sybill Trelawney for sure but trusts her intuition which
is as eager to read HP5 as Koticzka herself.
How can you hurt a man who has nothing?
Give him something broken.


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