Character descriptions (was OoP covers...)

[GulPlum]

No: HPFGUIDX 58499

Kelly Grosskreutz wrote, in reply to my previous comments about the lack of 
age indications for adult characters:

<snip standard method for calculating MWPP & Snape ages>

>Granted, nothing has been stated in canon to say James and Lily 
>immediately married or immediately started having kids, but by speculating 
>this way, one can figure that the youngest they can be is 35.  They 
>could've been older than this, but it gives one a starting point.

Which was my entire point. That indicates only the youngest they can 
possibly be, but it's based *entirely* on assumptions, and not actual 
canon. We have no indications in canon, even after four books, that Lily & 
James married and had Harry straight out of Hogwarts (or even that Harry is 
their first child!), and thus until the PoA revelations, they could quite 
reasonably be assumed to be much older.

Furthermore, Snape is head of House at Hogwarts and until the revelation in 
the second half of PoA, we have no means whatsoever of determining his age. 
McGonagall is twice his age (or so at least we know extra-canonically - 
again!), which is far more reasonable. Which in turn raises extra questions 
about how he got the post.

As I said originally, there is a deliberate literary purpose behind this. 
It makes it possible for JKR to pull all kinds of tricks on us (such as the 
PoA Revelations, for starters!) simply because our expectations are solely 
in our own heads and not in the text. Nevertheless, the characters remain 
difficult to visualise without some major jumping to conclusions on our parts.

For instance, this list regularly sees a resurgence of attempts to 
determine the Weasley parents' (and adult sons') ages, which again we can 
only establish in terms of quite generous approximations, if that. The same 
goes for the Malfoys.

>As for Dumbledore, I understand how it is eminently satisfying to have an
>idea just how long he has been around, but yet I can see why she doesn't
>feel it that important to tell us.  She has already told us that he is one
>of the oldest wizards around and has been kicking Dark wizard butt since at
>least 1945.  I actually was content knowing Dumbledore was ancient and never
>really needed to know just how old he was, but that's just me.

You misunderstand. I don't need to know *exactly* how old any character is. 
However, I would like to get some kind of indication of a general age 
bracket into which to put them, not only to be able to give their features 
some kind of context, but to be able to speculate about possible 
relationships (no, I don't mean sexual or romantic ones - that interests me 
*even less*!).

The fact that Dumbledore was around (and an obviously powerful adult) half 
a century before our timeframe is more than enough for me to get an image 
of the guy. Whether he was around 100 years before *that* isn't really of 
relevance to me.

However, one of the things I'd like to know is whether Karkaroff was around 
at that time. Whether as a boy, young man or experienced adult is a 
secondary issue. Or was he not born until a couple of decades later, in 
time for Voldemort's first rise? Nothing in canon gives me any indication 
of which may be correct, whilst making both assumptions reasonable.

<snip>

>In other words, I wouldn't look to Karkaroff's propensity at using 
>people's first names as an indicator of age.

Which was exactly the point I was making. :-) We have *nothing* on which to 
be able to get any kind of handle on how old the guy might be!

>In my view, Karkaroff might be closer to McGonagall's age than either Snape
>or DD.  I see Lucius Malfoy as being somewhat older than Snape, maybe ten
>years older.  I see Karkaroff being perhaps that much older than Lucius, but
>still younger than McGonagall.  If that helps out any in your
>imaging/casting decision.

Slight misunderstanding here because I didn't express myself properly 
previously (hey, I *did* admit that I was in a rush). :-)  The point I was 
trying to make is that based on what we know about him, Karkaroff can be 
any age with a lower limit around Snape's (mid-30s) and an upper limit 
around Dumbledore's (150-ish). That is a *huge* difference, both in terms 
of imagining what he might look like, and his role during, after and 
perhaps even before Voldemort's first rise to power. Furthermore, how does 
he relate to Malfoy?

I have absolutely no doubt that his role is going to prove to have been 
more significant than giving the MoM a few DEs' names.

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, who's having trouble (again) finding the time to reply 
to all the posts he'd want to...