Harry's sacrifice

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 58593

Ray: 

> > Forgive me for playing Voldy's advocate, but could you "count" 
for me a few times Harry has sacrificed?  And don't try to bring up 
his parents, who sacrificed *themselves* for him, or living with the 
Dursley's, which he does not do  by choice.
> > 
> > Harry has risked life and limb often enough, but it's always "No, 
> Harry - you go on, I'll hold them off." while Harry hasn't lost so 
much as a Quidditch match by his deliberate choice.
> > 
> >   --  Ray


Let's establish that when it comes to sacrifices, intent is just as 
valuable as deed. The fact that Ron didn't die on the chess board 
does not mean he wasn't willing to. And he had no way of knowing he 
would just be knocked out. He made a conscious choice to put his life 
at the mercy of that queen so Harry and Hermione might go further.

As an aside, I want to talk about the Lily sacrifice for a minute. 

We don't know for sure, although it is certainly reasonable to 
suspect, that she knew what her dying for Harry would do. It was a 
rare and old counter-charm, so obscure and little-used that even as 
smart a wizard as V-Mort had forgotten about it.

And we do have canon support for overwhelmingly good deeds producing 
powerful results without the wizard's intent. Harry certainly did not 
know he was going to create a life debt when he spared Wormtail, and 
he did not have to cast a spell beforehand to make it work, either.

So, it is possible Lily's sacrifice was a completely independent act, 
made free of the machinations of Dumbledore. In fact, I kind of hope 
it was. Let that act of sacrifice stand without any help, I say.

Now, back to Harry and his intents and deeds.

Harry certainly throws his own safety to the wind many a time. Going 
after the stone -- with the WILLING help of Ron and Hermione, by the 
way. Going down to the Chamber -- no question that Ron was going to 
go, it was his sister down there. Going back in time wasn't as 
physically risky -- certainly less so than fighting a basilisk -- but 
it could have gotten he and Hermione into serious trouble that 
Dumbledore couldn't have fixed.

But is he making a conscious "kill me or hurt me so others may live" 
sacrifice in any of these cases? No, but he certainly is putting 
himself in a position to be hurt or killed so others may live.

But in the end, he hasn't, to my way of thinking, been faced with the 
decision Ron had to make on the chess board. Not yet, anyway.

This is a hypothetical question. What if there was a way, down in the 
Chamber, for Harry to save Ginny by dying? I personally think he 
would have done that.

Now, he has tried to sacrifice other things, less important than life 
itself, but still fairly important things. 

In GoF, Harry is willing, when Krum and even dear, sainted Cedric 
were not, to sacrifice his standing in the tournament to make sure 
everyone is saved. It turns out he didn't have to. In fact, he was a 
bit of a git for thinking he had.

But he was willing to put their safety above his glory. 

Ditto for the whole Quest for the Stone in PS/SS. Harry was a pariah 
at school, thanks to helping lose so many points for Gryffindor. He 
could have played it safe, kept his head down, etc...

He was willing to put his social standing andthe glory of Gryffindor -
- you could make a case that wasn't his to give up, though -- to try 
and get the Stone. 

Turns out, he didn't make a sacrifice. Dumbledore made sure his deeds 
were recognized.
 
 Annemehr:
> *This fact that Harry allowed Ron and Hermione risk their lives for 
> him is telling.  I think Harry perceives it as a noble act, and he 
> sees his friends as just as capable of it as he is himself.  I see 
it not as any kind of cowardice in Harry, but a virtue.

One quibble: Harry doesn't "allow" anyone to do anything. Ron and 
Hermione can think for themselves. Had Harry tried to go after the 
Stone by himself, who is to say Hermione doesn't put the body bind on 
him until he agrees to let them go? And I'd like to have seen someone 
try to stop Ron from trying to help Ginny. 

But, annemehr is certainly right, Harry isn't a coward for accepting 
their help. Geez, did I miss someone trying to say he was?

Darrin
-- Darrin and the Quibbles. What do you think?