[Snapefans] The Old Snape Loves Lily Theory

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 58618

This is a response to Koinonia on Snapefans; double-posted because she's
actually responding on Snapefans to a post I made on HP4GU.  There's enough
Snape fans on the main list, though, and enough recent Snape discussion,
that I thought to respond in both venues.

Koinonia:

> I realize this
> might be a strange post as I'm not posting word for word what Amanda
> said but I don't think I am allowed to do that.

?? Yahoo policy? Because I don't care, I belong to both groups.

> Amanda's Take on Snape:

was summarized pretty much accurately.

> (1)Would Snape still love Lily? Why? They never had a relationship.
> They were in their early teens. Snape is now in his 30's. Lily is
> dead. She has been dead for many, many years. After all these years
> Snape couldn't get a life? Will he ever? What is he living for? Has
> he never even looked at another woman?

Well, for one, I have known a couple of people who had one great love. For
whatever reason, they were now alone. They chose to not pursue another.

It is a current American cultural thing, I think, to cast "having a life" in
terms of having romantic/sexual relationships. But it *is* possible to have
a completely full life without that. Snape *has* a life. He is a very
involved administrator of Hogwarts. From the tangential references we have
seen, he seems to have a good working relationship with the other teachers
(staffroom scene; McGongall's references to what sound, like me, to Snape
digging her about Quidditch, which to me says they have a friendly
professional rivalry). He enjoys the solid trust and respect of a man he,
himself, solidly respects (Dumbledore). And he knows he has a significant
part to play in upcoming Voldemort-troubles. Where's a lack of life?

> (2)Did Snape ask Voldemort to spare any other person? How about
> James?  Some believe Snape is the spy who told Dumbledore that
> Voldemort was after the Potters. Is Snape the kind of person who
> would stand by and let James and Harry be killed but beg for the life
> of Lily?

Probably. From my reading of his character, he is also practical. He had a
cover to maintain, and he also probably knew that there was *zero* chance
that Voldemort would spare James, but a possibility that he'd spare Lily.
Spies have to make the best of the situations they have.

> What about the other people Voldemort has killed? Did that
> ever bother Snape?

We don't know. I'm betting Snape's killed a fair few in his DE time, as
well. We have not seen much introversion from Snape, nor would the
Harry-filter put us in a very good position to see it accurately, so this,
we have no idea about.

> Would Dumbledore trust a man who only seemed to
> care if Lily lived?

See above. Snape may have had no choice, or have known that there was no
hope. And Dumbledore trusts a man who would have given Sirius to the
dementors.

> Would the wise Dumbledore hire such a man to be
> around young kids? Is that the kind of man you would stand up for and
> put on your 'team'?

I have noted that Dumbledore seems to allow life situations--unfairness,
etc.--to occur and be learning experiences at Hogwarts, as well as the
curriculum. This is not something that American schools allow (or something
they try to weed out). Personally, I think that letting children grow up
with the expectation that things are supposed to be fair and they're
guaranteed a level playing field is a massive disservice to them. So
Dumbledore may indeed have known Snape's failings and hired him anyway.
These children will have to deal with unreasonable people in the future; may
as well start now, while they're children.

> That doesn't make Snape very trustworthy to me.
> Would not Dumbledore think Snape doesn't seem to be able to function
> in the real world (still loving Lily)?

I don't follow this one. Why would still loving Lily make him unable to
function in any way?

> (3)Why hire Snape in the first place? Why trust him? Why does he
> really trust Snape?
>
> Perhaps Snape had been in love and was loved in return. That person
> could have been killed by Voldemort and perhaps that is why V thinks
> Snape might have left him forever. Or maybe V believes that way due
> to Snape's actions in COS.

This is part of my thought, actually; Voldemort knows Snape cared about
Lily. But I don't think that's why he thinks Snape left him forever. I think
Snape has a very strict internal code, which has nothing to do with ethics
or law and everything to do with his own personal ideas and ideals. I think
breaking your word is not something that is forgiven.

I further think that Snape judges *others* according to this code as well.
And I think Voldemort knows this, and transgressed Snape's code somehow, and
believes therefore that Snape is gone forever. Snape's task, in my mind, is
to go back to Voldemort and make V believe that Snape has abandoned or
rethought his position, which may not be easy, given the rigidity of Snape's
character.

As for the Lily connection, it may have been that Voldemort told Snape he'd
spare Lily, then didn't. He lied to someone who trusted him. This may have
been what made him "leave forever."

Or maybe just the knowledge that Snape spied on him. We don't know if
Voldemort knows this or not.

> Perhaps Snape had been in love and this person is still living. DE?
> If Snape is going back to the DE's could this not be the temptation
> that worries Dumbledore?

It could be. But I think, given the particular mention of "glittering eyes,"
that it is the temptation of old ways and power that will tempt Snape. Do
you remember/did you see Porphyria's analysis of when the term "glittering"
or "glinting" was used for eyes (mostly Snape's), and what was happening at
each time? [was an HP4GU post]Snape is always doing something cruel or
aggressive. Always. In that light, I find it ominous that Snape's eyes were
glittering as he left to begin his task.

> There are just so many posibilites. I just don't want to see Snape as
> a person who just can't get over a woman he never had. I would like
> him to be much stronger than that.

Interesting. I see that *as* strength, that he can be faithful to a love
given over time and through life. I don't see it as failing to "get over," I
see it as a strong enough character to be true.

As I said above, American culture tends to put romantic/sexual concerns
first on the list. Not everyone does that, it's not the "normal" way to look
at things, it's simply one way. Plenty of people devote their lives to one
other person, or one faith, or one ideal, which leaves no room for anything
else in their lives. I don't see anything weak about it at all.

> But anything is possible in these
> books and no telling what will happen.

Oh, truer words.

~Amanda