Harry's sacrifice

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 58655

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, rayheuer3 at a... wrote:
 
> The word "sacrifice" has several definitions, but here is the one I 
think 
> applies:
> 
> "3 a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of 
something else.
>      b : something given up or lost <the sacrifices made by parents> 
"
> 
> Has Harry ever lost an eye, an ear, a limb, or even a tooth?  No.  
Does Harry 
> walk with a limp?  Does he suffer from shortness of breath?  No.  
So, what 
> has he sacrificed?
> 
> Harry takes risks, yes.  But with the sure and certain knowledge 
that 
> whatever ills may befall him will be set right.  Which means he 
doesn't really "risk" 
> anything.

Annemehr:
How do you see so much of that assurance in the books?  In PS/SS he 
thought he was going to die.  In CoS, when down in the Chamber, he was 
very careful to try not to look into the basilisk's eyes.  He went 
into the chamber knowing there was a basilisk which *would* kill him 
if he did look.  Only in PoA does he seem convinced he will *not* die 
-- and he acts accordingly --  until Padfoot drags Ron into the 
Willow, and then he and Hermione proceed cautiously until Harry sees 
Black and his fury takes over.  In GoF, circumstances seem to carry 
him along, so that Harry is making very few choices.  He certainly 
doesn't seem to believe he has any real choice in competing in the 
TWT, can't see how it can be a plot to harm him other than the danger 
of the tasks themselves, and has the assurance of Dumbledore that they 
had taken precautions to prevent loss of life (though the dragon still 
terrifies him).  Still, not a situation that calls for "sacrifice" 
other than of peace of mind for an entire school year.

Ray: 
> When Ron sacrificed himself on the chess board in PS/SS, he did so 
with the 
> knowledge that he might have been fatally injured.

Annemehr:
The same knowledge that Harry had in confronting Quirrel!Mort, 
entering the basilisk's lair, and following a "murderer" who had taken 
his best friend into a secret passage.

Ray:
> Harry, on the 
other hand 
> has been in situations where he *should* have died several times, 
and lived to 
> tell about it each time.  Every time this happens, he will be more 
certain that 
> he will walk away the next time.

Annemehr:
But, I don't see any sign of this certainty in the books.  On the 
contrary, I see real fear of death plenty of times.

Ray: 
> Risk does not equal sacrifice.  LOSS equals sacrifice, and so far 
Harry has 
> never lost anything by his own actions.
> 
>   --  Ray

Annemehr:
You know, I'm not sure we've seen the sort of foreknown sacrifice 
you're looking for anywhere in the books so far, with one possible 
exception (see next paragraph).  There isn't even any proof that 
Lily's sacrifice was one of these (i.e. no proof that she knew and 
intended that being killed while standing between V and Harry would 
save her child's life).  I've always read it that she had no time to 
run away with Harry, doesn't seem to have even had her wand on her, 
and just did the frantic pleading that you might expect from a mother 
for her child.  Even the "take me, kill me instead" never made me 
think this was part of a *plan* to save Harry but only desperation.  
She just chose to do what she could rather than stand aside, and this 
is exactly what *Harry* does.  I know many believe that Lily always 
planned to give her life as the last step in a charm to save Harry, 
but there is no canon evidence that this is the case.

The only "sacrifice" I can think of, is when Wormtail cuts off his own 
hand for Voldemort's potion.  In this case, he is sacrificing one hand 
to save his whole life, so I'm not sure this counts. And then, he 
*was* promised the silver hand afterwards. ;-)

So, okay.  I agree that Harry has no lasting *physical* harm resulting 
from his actions.  I certainly don't agree that he now thinks himself 
indestructible, and he never did, except for not being afraid of 
Sirius Black.  If he thought he was indestructible, why did he come 
back so traumatised after the horror in the graveyard?  Why doesn't he 
swagger and laugh and boast of how Voldemort can't beat him?  Harry 
really does take risks, he knows he can die, and he also knows that 
"no spell can bring someone back from the dead."

Harry was *willing* to sacrifice his life; he just hasn't had to.

Annemehr