Confusuion-spies/lies

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 58825

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "peggybaratto" <petalla at e...> wrote:
> OK.  So if Voldie never uses names, and no one really knows who 
> follows him ..., why did he use names within the circle of Death 
> Eaters?
> 
> If no one knows who was a DE, why do some know each other as DEs?  
> ...edited...


bboy_mn:

I think some Death Eaters know who some Death Eaters were, but no
Death Eater knoww who all Death Eaters are. I have to believe that
many of these DE's interacted socially; ie: with their masks off. I
also believe that we are seeing the inner circle; the Generals of the
Death Eaters. The rank and file Death Eaters or more accurately
Voldemort supporters, probably didn't have the Dark Mark, and their
identities were on a need to know basis only. I'm sure many of the
Death Eater Generals knew who many of the rank and file members were,
but again, none of them knew who all the rank and file supporters
were. I have to believe that many of the supporters were covert
supporters. They went about their daily life like normal wizards, but
covertly acted on Voldemort's behalf.

As far as the graveyard scene, there are DE's present who are not
named. I also have to assume that among the DE Generals, the stand out
DE's identities were known. A promenant, competent and successful
member like Lucius would have been acknowledge for his abilities, and
an incomeitent member like Avery would have been known for his
bungling. Voldemort hands out accolades and disgrace with equal
relish; part of his reward and punishment school of management style.

> 
> Here are some of my questions now---
> Is it really a secret that Snape was a spy for Dumbledore? 

bboy_mn:

I believe it is a limited secret. Those who were involved in the
trials of DE's would have some knowledge of this; like the people who
were at Karkarov's trial. It's possible that Dumbledore gave testimony
on Snape's behalf at a hearing or during an investigation, so his
statements may not have been public information. I also don't get the
sense that everything that happens is a matter of public record. Yes,
it is acknowledge by Fudge that some information regarding the trial
is a matter of public record, but that may only be a summary of the
charges and a ruling.

Also the Snape as a spy theory, if our assumptions about the future
are right, hinges on Snape being a double agent. That would mean that
DE's with a need to know, would have known that Voldemort sent Snape
to be a spy for Dumbledore. Let's face it, Dumbledore has spies in
Voldimort's organization, and we know that Peter was a spy against
Dumbledore. In a spy game like this, double agents would seem a very
reasonable assumption.

Snape makes one grand gesture by divulging Voldemort information, with
Voldemort's knowledge and permission, to Dumbledore and that get's his
foot in the door. After that, his trickle of information is of the
'too little too late' although accurate variety. Just enough to
maintain his credability. 

So, if Snape is really working for Dumbledore, I guess we could
consider him a triple agent. A DE who has enteted the service of
Dumbledore as a spy agianst Voldemort, who Voldemort thinks is spying
for him against Dumbledore, but in reality is a spy for Dumbledore
against Voldemort. 

So I don't think the limited public knowledge that Snape was a spy
works against him. The DE's think he was pretending to be a spy, but
actually assume he is still with Voldemort. The general wizard world
think he was a spy against Voldemort. This puts Snape in the perfect
position to go back to Voldemort and claim the samething everyone
else, like Lucius, claimed, has that he was just biding his time and
maintaining his cover waiting for some sign that Voldemort was back.

I know many people aren't buying it, but I'm convinced Snape will go
back to Voldemort and offer to continue his role as a double agent.


> If this is public  knowledge (at least within the WW), how can Snape
>  return to the DE?

See above.


> 
> Lockheart???  We know he is still at St. Mungo's--but could he be
> the person possible that quoted for Rita's article? 

I say forget Lockheart, I don't think he will ever play more than a
minor role in future books. I think he will appear, but he will just
be Lockheart, not an anamagus, not a secret spy, not a DE, nothing but
a blowhard.


> 
> We know that the real Moody was aprehensive about Snape being on 
> Dumbledore's side. ...edited... Is he still not sure about Snape?
> Who will we trust?  Dumbledore or Moody?
> 
> ~~~~~a very confuzzled Peggy

Interesting point implied here; we know what FAKE!Moody thought of
Snape, but we really have no idea how the real  Moody views him. I
suspect that even the real Moody will be somewhat suspicious; you can
never trust a spy. Hard to trust someone who makes their living by
betraying people. But I think his suspicious will be a little more
reasonable and logically fuel than FAKE!Moodies.

Just a few thoughts.

bboy_mn