Heirs and Decendants

[Linda]

No: HPFGUIDX 58847


First of all I would like to thank koticzka for the compliments. 
It's nice to know that someone agrees with 
some of my lines of reasoning. It's encouraging to know that my 
theories are at least not entirely in left 
field, or if they are, I have company out there. OK, time to swing 
for the top of the green monster ( but I'll 
settle for a ground rule double on the fair side of the Peski pole.)

Sorry for the baseball analogies but I'm watching my beloved Red Sox 
play the Yankees as I type.

OK. Deep breath. Sip of coffee. Back to Harry Potter world.

There has been a lot of discussion about the heirs of the four 
school founders. For the purposes of this 
post, heirs by choice (or creed , worldview etc.- pick whatever term 
you prefer), will be referred to as heirs. 
Heirs by blood decendancy will be referred to as decendants. You'll 
find as I continue my arguments that 
a lot of what I have to say is based on the difference between the 
two. Also, I will not touch upon the heirs 
or decendants of Helga Hufflepuff or Winona Ravenclaw as this post 
will be plenty long enough without 
getting into that territory.


Let's start with Salazar Slytherin.

I see Riddle as both the heir and decendant of SS. 


catlady: 

> Altho' I would prefer a Potterverse in which TMR was NOT the last 
> descendent of Salazar Slytherin, as I like to imagine the 
Potterverse 
> with MANY people bragging that their families are descended from 
> Salazar Slytherin, including the Malfoys and the Snapes. 



"'You can speak Parseltongue, Harry,' said 
 Dumbledore calmly, 'because Lord Voldemort - who is the last 
 remaining descendant of Salazar Slytherin - can speak 
Parseltongue'" 
 (CoS, Ch. 18).


I know that Dumbledore says that Riddle is the last remaining 
decendant of SS but I don't see that as 
necessarily being the end of the family bloodline. We don't have 
enough canon to make that determination 
one way or the other. Was SS an only child? Did he have any aunts or 
uncles that could have provided 
him with cousins? We simply don't have access to that information, 
and that is where my theorizing begins.
I am going to work from the assumption that the bloodline from which 
SS came is still alive and well in 
the WW.

Now for the gigantic leap of faith. ( Think Indiana Jones retreiving 
the Cup of Christ to save his father.)

I think the Malfoy family is of the same decendancy as Tom Riddle, 
not directly from SS but perhaps from a
sibling we have no knowlege of. Let's look at what we know about 
SS.  According to the sorting hat in 
SS/PS, cunning is a trait that he prized. The Malfoy family 
certainly seems to ascribe to that method of 
operation. Why didn't SS want muggle born wizards in Hogwarts? He 
was afraid of muggles and anyone 
connected to them.(POS) Considering the era in which Hogwarts was 
built, that was a pefectly 
understandable concern. I don't, however, see him as hating muggles 
and their way of life, just as
having a never the twain shall meet type of attitude. Allright, 
you're saying to yourself, that 's true enough, 
but how can you equate that to the Malfoys? They HATE muggles and 
muggle borns! I stated my reasoning 
for this in my earlier post ( if you really want to go back to 
original post it's digest # 58256) but in order to 
avoid the necessity of going back to it I'll reiterate here. Hatred, 
and by extension prejudice, is often a 
by-product of fear. As a species, we have a fear of the unknown, 
based in the instinct of self preservation. 
As a result of the initial fear, we distance ourselves from the 
different - either not making any attempt to 
learn more about that which we fear, or making the attempt and then 
backing away do to that good old 
self preservation instinct, never to try again. Generations pass and 
what our initial fear becomes animosity. 
Animosity turns to the other being perceived as an enemy the 
animosity which itself grows to hatred and 
prejudice. This gradual generational shift makes logical sense in 
re. to connecting the attitudes and fears 
of SS to the hatred and prejudice exhibited by the Malfoys.
 
*sidenote*
I realize this line of thinking would seem to exclude Tom Riddle as 
the heir. However, I see Riddle as 
having made the above described generational progression himself - 
from fear to hatred- while still in his 
formative years. Therefore, at the time that he opened the chamber, 
he was in the middle of that transition
and was basing his actions on the need to eliminate that which he 
had been taught to fear from a very early
age. The desertion by his muggle father instilled a deep mistrust of 
muggles in general and it is this 
distrust that he shared with SS. In Riddle this distrust and hatred 
led to a path that I do not completely believe 
SS would have followed but the basic sentiment remains consistant.


     Pip!Squeak wrote:         
> 
> > I actually think it more likely that Arthur Weasley is the heir 
> of  
> > Gryffindor,not Harry. The Weasley family's given names are all 
> > either based on Arthurian legend or on names used by the British 
> > Royal Family. It suggests that, like the Malfoys, they're 
> > wizarding 'royalty'.
> > 
> > [The Malfoy's also have 'royal' names. Lucius brings to mind  
> > the 'Prince of Darkness' and Draco connects with 'Pendragon'.]
> > 
> > This is in keeping with the 'choices, rather than abilities' 
theme 
> > throughout the books so far. Tom Riddle *chose* to be the Heir 
of 
> > Slytherin. 
>     
             >snip, snip,snip<
> 
> > Equally, Harry has made a series of choices throughout the book. 
> He 
> > has chosen to be a Gryffindor, chosen to fight Voldemort, chosen 
> to  
> > return evil with good, chosen to remain a wizard. Harry is going 
> > through a 'growing-up' process where he chooses to be 
Gryffindor's 
> > spiritual heir.
> 
>    >snipping RIddle's growing up process<
>  
> > Blood versus choices. Perhaps Harry, with no bloodline, is the 
> true  
> > heir to Gryffindor (over his friend Ron, who has the bloodline). 
> Tom 
> > Riddle, with the bloodline, is the false heir to Slytherin.


As noted above I don't agree with the final line of the above post 
but that need not mean  that I think the 
rest of the quote is any less valid.



And that leads us to Godric Gryffindor.


I am not as sure about the heir of GG. I know that the popular 
answer to this question would be Harry, but
I'm not entirely convinced. I understand the referance to Godric's 
Hollow which has been cited by many 
of my fellow listees but the arguments that place names are often 
taken from famous people ring true
with me. I also see the merit of the continuing battle theory 
(ie.SS/GG), however, there is to this point no
cannon that GG's heir is necessary componant to the defeat/demise of 
LV. The point on this topic that actually made the biggest 
impression on me was made by Darrin:

> It is conceivable that the whole Heir business is limited to 
Salazar 
> Slytherin.

               >snip, snip, snip<

> Now, we've gone under the assumption that Godric would also have 
his 
> Heir working against Salazar, but it's possible that there isn't 
one, 
> and Harry is just an honorable, good person who happens to be in 
> Gryffindor.


As I haven't made up my own mind in regards to GG's heir, I'll leave 
that discussion to listees with stronger opinions on the subject.

However, that does not mean that I don't have a strong opinion on 
GG's decendants.


IMHO, we have already met no less than eight blood decendants of 
Godric...Arthur Weasley and his seven children. I don't have a lot 
of canon to back this up but please bear with me. They represent the 
very antithesis of what the Malfoys stand for.  In my mind the most 
telling point is Arthur's attitude toward muggles. The split betwwen 
GG and SS occured mainly because GG wanted to allow muggle borns 
into Hogwarts as long as they had magical talent (CoS) and SS feared 
what would happen if they were to attend. Once again fear,  or the 
lack thereof, is the center of my argument. SS feared the muggles, 
GG accepted them. Malfoy hates the muggles with seemingly no rhyme 
or reason. Arthur craves to learn more about them and their way of 
life. Where the fear of the other is absent, so to is the hatred. ( 
To my fellow trekkies: I know I'm getting into the territory of 
Vulcan philosophy but I can't help it.) The point is that both 
Arthur and GG are chacterized by curiosity about, as opposed to fear 
of, the unknown. This curiosity, like the fear I extrapolated upon 
in the above section on SS and the Malfoys, is passed down through 
generations of family. This is further exhibited by the Weasley 
children. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I know that is 
cliche but sayings become cliche because they contain truth. Even 
when we have been shown Ron's prejudice, it is shown alongside 
awillingness on his part to learn whether or not the prejudice he 
feels is based in fact and to make a decision based on that knowlage.

A quote from my earlier post:

>      I read on another site a theory that Trellaway's first 
> prediction may have been that the heir of Gryffindor would defeat 
> the heir of Slytherin. Could this be a confrontation between the 
> blood heirs, Arthur and Lucius? The animosity is most certainly 
> already there. Could the twist be that the prophecy actually had 
> nothing to do with Harry at all and that what happened that 
> halloween night was a totally seperate matter? Maybe the prophecy 
> said the two heirs of each founder-the blood heir and the heir by 
> choice would combine to unite the WW and the muggle world. Or 
maybe 
> it was that the two heirs from Gryffindor would combine their 
> respective strengths to defeat the two heirs of Slytherine. Maybe 
LV 
> thought that was James and Harry?


Whether I'm correct or not is yet to be seen, but I can't wait to 
start the next leg of the journey to that knowlege and the answers 
to many other questions. 

- Linda... The journey IS the true destination.