A Harry Failure (was: Re: Harry's Sacrifice. / Sorting and Character Traits)

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 58892

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "drmm_fuuko" <drmm at f...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:> Annemehr:
> <<> A short while ago, there was a thread going on discussing 
> whether, for thematic reasons, Harry might need to *fail* at 
> something important,
<snip>
DrMM: 
> I'd be interested to read this thread (must have joined after it 
> finished) as I've always thought Harry needs to fail in a big way in 
> order for him to grow.

Annemehr:
It begins with a post by Melody: # 53675. ::waves to Mel::  It's in 
TBAY style, and the part about Harry needing to fail at something 
begins about 1/3 of the way down.  There were quite a lot of replies 
and discussion - very interesting.

DrMM:
> 
> While others may disagree, I've always thought that Harry tends to 
be 
> careless, reckless and just a touch arrogant. Let me explain why.
>
<snip examples from 1st three books>

Annemehr:
I really just see his habit of not seeking adult help as a major 
consequence of the way he was raised by the Dursleys.  This is not 
arrogance at all to me, but that's just my opinion.  It's not an 
absolute with him, either.  HRH tried to tell Professor McGonagall 
about someone being after the philosopher's stone, and were rebuffed. 
 McGonagall wouldn't even listen to their very good reasons why they 
thought the stone was truly in danger.  (I know you did bring this up, 
but I think it was a stronger point than you wrote it). Harry and Ron 
were on their way to the staffroom to tell what they had figured out 
about the Chamber of Secrets when the staff meeting about Ginny 
occurred.  Here their common sense did desert them as they first 
merely went back to their common room, and then went for help to the 
one teacher they believed to be useless (even though they did think he 
was at least going to try to find Ginny).  In PoA, he didn't try to do 
much of anything except sneak into Hogsmeade.  This *is* arrogance on 
his part, I agree, but I think Lupin's words to him after he was 
caught made a lasting impression.  When Padfoot dragged Ron into the 
Whomping Willow, I am not surprised he and Hermione didn't go for help 
-- they were afraid there wasn't time ("Harry, -- we've got to go for 
help --" Hermione gasped; she was bleeding too; the Willow had cut her 
across the shoulder.  "No!  That thing's big enough to eat him; we 
haven't got time--"  from PoA, ch.17).  Okay, better maybe if Harry 
went into the Willow and Hermione went for help, but I suppose they 
figured they'd need both of them against the dog.
 
DrMM:
> GoF: This is the book where I think Harry's *finally* starting to 
> think about things more. In fact, I can't think of one thing that 
> Harry does that he isn't forced to do because of his unwilling 
> participation in the Tournament (Well, he should have told 
Dumbledore 
> about his dreams.).

Annemehr:
Yes, I was glad to see him change a bit, too, because he's going to 
need to be open with Dumbledore during the coming war with Voldemort.
It is true, he felt stupid writing Dumbledore about his *first* dream, 
but he did feel he ought to write *someone,* and told Sirius -- the 
first time he ever went to an adult with a *question,* I think (not 
counting the q's he has for Dumbledore at the ends of books, when they 
are dicsussing aftermaths).  After the second dream he had during 
Divination, however, he did just what Sirius told him to do, and went 
straight to Dumbledore.

DrMM:
> 
> In all of these books, Harry has survived out of luck and with the 
> help of his friends.

Annemehr:
You left out, his own determination.

DrMM:
 I admit that if Harry weren't the typical 
> storybook hero, these books would be very boring and short, so Harry 
> *needs* to do some of these things. I just think that, if JKR wants 
> to show a real growth in Harry, some of the things he does will have 
> to change. Sometimes a hero has to think ahead and not rush into 
> things. 
> 
> Until GoF, I think Harry was treating most of these things as a 
game. 
> They were adventures and he wasn't really thinking seriously about 
> the consequences.

Annemehr:
Amen to the first paragraph, but I'll quibble with the last two 
sentences (because of what I wrote above).

DrMM:
> 
> If Harry fails, I think it will cost the life of someone he cares 
> about.  And for Harry to learn and grow the most, it should be his 
> own carelessness that causes it. I predict that the death most 
people 
> think will happen in OOtP will be caused because Harry does 
something 
> stupid -- and is caught because of it. Or at least in book 6.
> 
> DrMM

You're not alone.  Personally, I think that if Harry had just outright 
lost a Quidditch match to a better seeker, we might not even be 
discussing this! ;-)

Annemehr
I think this was my 115th post!