Adopted!Harry & HarrySavesHarry

[m.steinberger]

No: HPFGUIDX 58899

----- Original Message -----
From: Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com>
To: <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com>; <steinber at zahav.net.il>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:58 AM
Subject: Adopted!Harry & HarrySavesHarry


> Having finally read through the
> Adopted!Harry/HarrySavesHarry thread
> (hope I found all the posts!), I
> have a quibble with the theory.
> This is not a quibble over logistics
> and 'method.'  No, I find the
> essential premise shaky, which is
> too bad because the dilemmas are
> quite interesting.
>
> Since this is TAS's guess as to what
> JKR will present as Voldemort's
> understanding of immortality and how
> to achieve it, I am unsure whose
> view of godhood is supposed to be at
> work here.
>
> TAS, in part:
> > ...as we know, Voldemort's main
> > goal is immortality and absolute
> > power, and, I propose, he
> > discovered a way to attain not
> > just "ordinary" immortality and
> > absolute power, but something even
> > greater: a form of dark godhood;
> > not just living without end, but
> > becoming a being "without
> > beginning and without end" as G-d
> > is. And part of the magic that
> > would accomplish this godhood
> > would require getting rid of his
> > beginning - killing his own infant
> > self.
>
> See, I consider the condition of
> being "without beginning and without
> end" to be a fairly minor attribute
> of that which we consider divine.
> The divine (what TAS termed godhood
> or G-d) is ever-present and OUTside
> the field of time and is THEREBY
> considered to be "without beginning
> and without end."  To be concerned
> with the elimination of beginnings
> or endings is by definition dealing
> with issues of and relationships to
> time.
>
> As I don't consider such an
> attribute to be an essential part of
> what makes a divinity divine, I
> find the usage of it as part of the
> means to achieve divinity very
> unsatisfactory.  In other words, the
> divine does not achieve divinity
> BECAUSE it satisfied the condition
> of having no beginning and no end...
>
> ...the divine simply IS.
>
> The "without beginning and without
> end" part is merely a description of
> the state of being divine; to
> consider it a CONDITION of becoming
> divine (which is how I am reading
> what TAS termed as the magic that
> would accomplish this godhood) and
> thereby achieving immortality
> oversimplify the process through
> which one rise above the mortal
> coil...no matter how one defines
> such a process.
>
> Only with this all-too-literal
> reading of the figurative
> description of divinity, can
> "killing his own infant self" =
> "getting rid of his beginning" and
> thereby put Voldemort on the road to
> immortality.  Y'know, you really
> CAN'T unring a bell...once a mortal
> has begun, there's no truly
> meaningful way to eliminate his/her
> beginning.  Yes, 'it's magic!' but
> ultimately the books' themes must
> explore the human condition...or
> else it's just really fun pulp.
>
> Of course, if I am reading this
> theory incorrectly, I hope TAS would
> enlighten me.  <g>
>
> Having said all that, your scenario
> would be fine with me if this flawed
> understanding of divinity is held by
> Voldemort and is thematically
> explored.  One way to do so might be
> to root Harry's ability to defeat
> Voldemort in the fact that Harry
> comes to understand what Voldemort
> couldn't.  Otherwise, I will
> personally be sorely disappointed.
>
You are quite on target. Getting rid of one's beginning is certainly looking
at divinity from the tail end. However, I can't imagine Voldemort really
understanding the divine; all he wants is to be one plane higher than
everyone else; he really doesn't want to divorce himself from the world of
physical pleasures and power. So with his flawed understanding and lack of
real desire for true divinity, he's after some lower level of what he
understands to be godhood.

And yes, I am sure that JKR will explore all this, and show the glory of
real divinity (through Harry, some way) vs. Voldemort's corrupt desires.
She's promised in at least one interview to show in later books where
religion fits into all this.

The Admiring Skeptic

PS. I'm on web-view for a while, with no time to check the site, and am grateful for having got this off-list from Petra Pan. If this turns into a thread, someone please let me know and I'll get connected.


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