I know Molly.....

[artcase]

No: HPFGUIDX 84061

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jwcpgh" <jwcpgh at y...> wrote:
> ...snip...
> Laura:
> 
> Maybe because we're the ones who have to work out what it means to 
> be a mother.  Men have their own job to do about parenting but 
> that's not the discussion here.  We can all agree that in the 
> western world, anyhow, the lives and roles of women have been 
> radically opened over the past generation or so.  We're all 
figuring 
> out what it means, societally and personally.
> 
> Kneasy:
> 
> > The WW is highly traditional, including the portrayals of women. 
> There  seems  to be a strict divide;
> > what might  be called career types with no apparent families 
> > (MacGonagall, Skeeter) and the home based (Molly, Petunia) with 
no 
> > career. No compromise or blending of the two so far as I can see.
> > 
> > ...snip...> 
> Laura:
> 
> Oh my-you have bitten off a mouthful here, haven't you?  Well, this 
> isn't the time or place to get into the intricacies of feminist 
> theory and practice.  And I'm in no position to argue with your 
> portrayal of the traditional English mum.  Just a few thoughts as 
> regards what you have to say in the contect of HP:
> 
> The stereotype you describe has good and bad traits, imo.  Some of 
> the good traits become bad when taken to extremes.  It is *not* 
> cute, loving or desirable to treat your grown children as 
> emotionally dependent all their lives.  If this is where Molly is 
> headed, that's bad news.  I don't think her kids will put up with 
> it.  It is *not* desirable to lose your identity in your family.  
> Women who are mothers, even full time mothers (like me) have to 
have 
> some sort of independent emotional and/or intellectual lives to be 
> healthy and balanced human beings. 
>  ...snip...
> The problem is hers, not his.  No mother can be 
> everything to her children, and thinking that is a sure recipe for 
> disaster.  
> 
> It is rather interesting that JKR would portray such a traditional 
> societal structure.  The only working mother we hear about is 
> Hermione's mom, but we don't know her at all.  (Besides, she's a 
> muggle.)  Obviously this doesn't square with JKR's own personal 
> experience.  I don't think that we can take it as an endorsement of 
> any particular societal model, though.  Several posters have 
> observed that the WW is traditional, even old-fashioned, in many 
> ways, and this is a significant one.   And a number of essays as 
> well as posts and discussions at Nimbus centered on whether the HP 
> books can be seen as feminist or not, just because of the ways 
> female characters are presented.  Maybe JKR, as an author already 
> trying to create a very complex world, just decided not to bring in 
> the kinds of gender issues we're talking about here.   It may just 
> be a default decision-this social setup is supposed to be a neutral 
> background so as not to distract from the subject we're looking 
at.  
> ...snip...

Art here: 

I agree with Laura's assessment/questioning of JKR's intentions with 
Molly. Going out on a limb, perhaps JKR is portraying Molly as 
the "mother" she wishes she could have been. What I'm getting at here 
is the transition of the author from out of work and poor to the 
millions of dollars, nice husband, new child thing she has now. If 
that assesment sounds a bit harsh, consider my situation. By my 
moniker, some of you may think I'm male. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm 
a single USA mom of two. I've been homeless (Boehemian phase, prior 
to children) and know how it goes to be hungry a day or two. I worked 
hard to get where I am now (in charge of a staff of men) and wouldn't 
trade the life lessons learned. Nor will I subject myself to coddling 
and melodrama that rides on so many "hard luck" stories. That's for 
wimps. I work, so what. That's what so many fathers did for all of 
history. Now it's my turn. It is the sacrifice a parent makes for the 
next generation, and that is what it takes to afford the things I 
desire in life.

I'm really waiting for some of JKR's past to surface in her books. I 
really hope that it doesn't manifest itself as evil. That would be a 
huge setback, and utterly unnecessary in this modern world. What 
doesn't kill us makes us stronger. IMO, JKR may think that Molly is a 
great mom, I am not sold. There are moms of all kinds. Ethnic, good, 
bad, suburban, stereotypical, super-hero, down-in-the-mud die-
hards... Sirius could have been a break from the mundane old-
fashioned life that is portrayed in these books. He could have been 
the single, hard-working, affectionate, and decent parent. We will 
never get that opportunity to witness the beauty of the new age of 
parenthood. No, instead he is killed off, accused of living through 
Harry, and so many other things that "make him a bad parent" I CRY 
INJUSTICE!!! Molly too lives vicariously through her children. What 
parent doesn't from time to time? Why is that ok for her, and not for 
Sirius? I'll tell you why... Sirius was single, Molly is not. And we 
think these books are about racial predudice....

Children need to be taught that both men and women need to work hard 
to accomplish their goals. There are no more free rides, death-til-we 
part-happy-endings and any person who preaches this is deluding the 
future. While suburban moms in mini-vans can pretend they are 
liberated, how many of them can claim that they are the main 
breadwinner?  There is still a HUGE gap in what the real world out 
there IS and what messages we teach to our daughters. Fortunetly, HP 
is about a boy. Unfortunetly, the leading girl is deluged in 80's 
thinking. I'd write more on this, but am running long.