CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Chapter Five

[meriaugust]

No: HPFGUIDX 84625

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote: 

Pippin asks:

> QUESTIONS:
> 
> 1. Why isn't Sirius happier to see Harry?
 
Meri: I am sure that he is happy to see Harry, but imagine being 
stuck in Grimmauld Place for a month with little company and feeling 
useless: I'm sure it's pretty hard for Sirius to conjure up a good 
mood in this case, especially as there is a war on and he can't 
really participate in it. 

> 2. In chapter four, Molly seemed a bit anxious, but she was 
> thrilled to see Harry and nowhere near as irritable as she is 
> when we meet her again a few hours later in chapter five. Is her 
> change in mood due to something that happened at the 
> meeting? Did the Order just find out that Voldemort is after 
> something in the Department of Mysteries? Have they been told 
> that it concerns Harry? 

Meri: I think that her irritableness has to do with the fact that up 
until this point in the series Harry has always allowed Molly to 
baby him (like when he visits the Burrow in CoS and GoF) and now 
he's trying to, maybe, assert his adulthood. He's not the helpless 
little boy who needs her to darn his socks and give him fourth 
helpings of breakfast anymore. Molly also seems to have a short fuse 
when it comes to her kids sassing her, like in the scene in GoF 
where she buys Ron his dress robes and he says he won't wear them. 
Molly gets positively snippy and irritated with him. 

> 3. We've been given to understand that the  shrewd and cunning 
> goblins are nobody's fools, not easily subjected to jinxes, tricks 
> or blackmail. Yet Lupin thinks  they will be tempted to join 
> Voldemort even though they know he has murdered their kind. 
> Why?

Meri: I am pretty sure (my copy of OotP is still out on loan) that 
it was Bill who said that if the goblins can be convinced that LV 
and the DEs are willing to offer them freedoms that the MoM has been 
denying them for years that this may prove an enticing (and 
understandably so) offer. The goblins seem to have a tendency to 
revolt against the MoM, as we have seen in all the goblin rebellions 
that Professor Binns bores the students with. 
 
> 4. Is Molly's attempt to involve Sirius in the housecleaning a 
good 
> idea, or would she have been wiser to leave him alone?

Meri: Probably she should have left him be, but as it is his house, 
maybe she felt uncomfortable poking around without his involvement. 
What I was surprised about was why Sirius didn't take this 
opportunity to use the housecleaning as a sort of exorcism to get 
out the bad vibes. Maybe then he would have been slightly happier 
(or more comfortable anyway) staying confined there. 
 
> 5. Harry seems equally interested in the lighthearted efforts of 
> Tonks and Mundungus to entertain the other youngsters, and in 
> the more intense, grownup conversations going on. But he 
> doesn't take part in any of the talk until Sirius asks him. Why?

Meri: IMHO, I think this has to do with all that Harry has been 
through in the last few days, from the dementor attack, to being 
expelled to the ministry hearings to the rescue from Privet Drive. 
He's probably just glad to be among people who don't treat him like 
dirt and value his company, and he's probably more that glad just to 
listen and eat his fill. This may also show his moving to adulthood: 
he doesn't know quite where he belongs anymore, the kids table or 
the adult table. 

> 6. Where does Molly expect people to learn about right and 
> wrong?

Meri: Certainly from their parents, though I am pretty sure that 
this is just a sarcastic remark showing her distaste for the 
involvement of such crooks as Mungdungus in the Order. This may also 
be an indication that she is more upset with Percy's rebellion than 
she seems, and is maybe questioning her own parenting skills, which 
could also account for her overprotectiveness of Harry. 

> 7. Earlier, Aunt Petunia revealed an unexpected knowledge of the 
> wizarding world. Now, Molly has an Aunt Petunia moment and 
> refuses to let Harry ask questions. What is the significance of 
> this switch? Why does Molly feel it would be dangerous to let  
> Harry ask questions? Is there a difference between telling Harry 
> what he needs to know and letting him ask whatever he likes, or 
> is this a distinction without a difference and an indication of 
> Molly's illogical state of mind?

Meri: This isn't out of character for Molly. In PoA, when Arthur 
wants to tell Harry about Sirius's escape from Azkaban, Molly 
doesn't like the idea at all (I'd quote cannon here, but this book 
is also out on loan). She wants very much to protect Harry, and 
seems to believe the old adage "ignorance in bliss". For Mollly, 
keeping Harry out of the loop is a device to keep him safe and keep 
him from doing anything irrational and dangerous (after all, the 
first thing he wants to do is join up). This is very different from 
Aunt Petunia, who merey wants to keep Harry from knowing anything 
about a past that she considers shameful. And as to why Petunia made 
any mention of knowledge about the dementors, I wholeheartedly that 
there are things about her that even we can't imagine. 
 
> 8. Molly and Sirius  act like  stereotypical parents in this 
chapter: 
> Molly the overprotective, interfering  Mum and Sirius the feckless 
> single Dad.  Is this consistent with their portrayal in the rest 
of 
> the series?  Are these  caricatures harmless entertainment or do 
> they foster sexism? 

Meri: I think Molly's is very consitent with how she has been 
portrayed in the previous books, but I don't think that she is being 
overprotective and interfereing with out good reason. There is a war 
going on after all, one of her sons has gone and joined up with a 
group dedicated to put the Order down, and now she has Harry, the 
prophecy and the Ministry hearings to deal with. Do I think that it 
is sexist to show her as a caring, though sometimes overbearing 
individual? Not IMHO. In Sirius' case, however, we have very little 
cannon backing up how he and Harry would interact on a father-son 
level. In GoF, the only other book where they have significant 
contact, that contact is limited to a few fire chats, a cave visit, 
and Dumbledore's office after the tragic events, so we don't really 
know how he would behave if the two were allowed to have a normal 
relationship. As to him being irresponsible when it comes to Harry, 
I just think that it is due to lack of experience raising a 
teenager. Sexism? I'm not really sure. But Sirius and Molly do 
provide a good look at one of the major themes of the book: one 
wants to baby him and the other treat him more of a grownup. Where 
does he fit? 
 
> 9. What is the significance of the "fleeting glance" that Sirius 
and 
> Lupin exchange? Are they privy to information the others do not 
> have about the Prophecy and if so, how do they know it? When 
> Lupin says that the Order knows more than Voldemort thinks it 
> does, is this true only because Voldemort's spy  hasn't made a 
> report on tonight's meeting yet <veg>? 

Meri: Are we sure that LV has a spy in the Order? I'm not sure about 
that, but I am pretty sure that almost everyone knows about the 
prophecy now, with the exception of the kids, Harry included. The 
adults may have been under orders from DD not to tell Harry anything 
about the prophecy, as he doesn't even learn what it was til the end 
of the book anyway. The glance was probably saying, "time to keep 
our mouths shut." 

> 10. Why does Lupin bring the conversation to a close before 
> Harry can ask the question he'll immediately put to Ron and 
> Hermione in the next chapter: where is the weapon being kept? 
> What are the dangers Lupin says the others have no idea of?  
> What does it say about Lupin and Sirius's relationship that 
> Sirius, who argues with everyone else, even Dumbledore, 
> accepts Lupin's decision at once and without question?

Meri: Lupin is the only person from his childhood left that Sirius 
can truly call a trusted friend. As Lupin says later, he was made a 
prefect to help control his friends, so maybe he still has some sway 
over Sirius. As to why he ended the conversation, he may not be 
allowed to tell Harry about the Depatment of Mysteries or the 
prophecy, and telling Harry "no you can't know that" would surely 
raise more questions then it answered. 

Sorry I rambled so much, thought that these were great questions and 
just had to put my two cents in. 
Meri