[HPforGrownups] Re: Stereotyping

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 84651


> Kneasy:
> Brownies (and I believe by extension Elves) belong to the house
> not the householder. They stay, even if the family moves.
>
> They *refuse* pay.
>
> Slaves were never punished by giving them freedom. If they had
> been, all slave societies would have been hot-beds of slave criminality.
>
K

Elves belong to a family. They are *owned* by that family. They have no
choice in the matter. I don't care whether they want to be there or not (and
neither do most of their owners) they are still slaves.

>
> Kneasy:
> True to a certain extent, but not after the1500s. Once the dictats of
> Rome (including blame for the crucifixion, permissable occupations
> limited to moneylending and banking, public worship forbidden)were
> consigned to the dust-bin in England and justice got onto
> an even keel, systematic persecution, usually whipped up by some-one
> powerful who wanted to renege on their debts, was no longer a problem
> except when public order broke down. Which was rare.
> I can't claim that everyone greeted them with open arms, but that was
> nothing special - the Welsh were treated the same way, as were Scots,
> Irish and French. And they were equal under the law.
>

K

True, but you specifically said 'after the Italiens started lending money'
and that was *before* the expulsion of the Jews in, ugh, not sure about the
date 13th Century though I believe.


> Kneasy:
> Well, we agree on Hermione, at least.
> Sure, Elves are not exact parallels with Brownies, but I have posted often
> expressing the belief that there is more to come, that we do  not have
> all the relevent facts. To those who voice unalterable certainty, I repeat
> the warning that I've made before: I think you're going to have egg on
> your face, just like Hermione. If I'm wrong I'll  apologise, publicly.
>
>
K

We know from canon that elves belong to families and cannot be free without
the owner freeing them. That makes them slaves. Elves appear to be quite
powerful magically so I think we will see more about them later - I don't
think we'll see a rebellion because that would be a rather facile way of
clearing up the ethical questions around them (hey they no longer want to be
slaves, guess SPEW can be established after all). Personally I wouldn't
favour freeing them anyway, most of them are happy and if it ain't broke and
all that. I do think they should have some kind of legal rights so that
elves, like Dobby or even Kreacher, who don't want to work for the family
they are with can find themselves another family.

K