[HPforGrownups] Re: Stereotyping - Point of Exception

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 84683


>
> bboy_mn:
>
> To this point, I must take exception, and I think it illustrates
> nicely the point that the original poster was trying to make.
>
> JKR is under no obligation to as a writer to construct a well balanced
> politically correct world. She has no mandate to to make sure all
> point of view are represented and that no one is offended.
>
K -

OK several people seem to think that by a strong character I mean someone
who is powerful I don't I mean a character that is well-developed enough to
stand on its own. I already explained this earlier in the thread but several
people seem to have skipped that response and are misunderstanding me.
Neville is a strong character because I feel I know him. Dean isn't because
I know a few superficial facts about him but nothing about his personality.
Hermione is a strong character. before OoP I couldn't put any other female
in that category. Personally I would think that as an author writing foar an
audience of both genders JKR would want to have some more female characters.
I know I used to hate reading books where the boys got all the fun. I'm not
saying that she should make sure she has equal numbers of characters of each
gender - I simply wonder why it is that *all* the female characters other
than Hermione are 2d pre-OoP. I am not saying that JKR shouldn't write what
she wants I am just saying that it strikes *me" as wrong to make the
characters so lopsided in terms of which gender they are.

My other point is about the ww not JKR. Up until OoP it seemed that the ww
was sexist (I'm not saying that JKR shouldn't write it this way, just making
an observation about the way it seemed). Until OoP we only saw women as
mothers, teachers or barmaids. Oh and a dressmaker - all very stereotypical
women's professions. I wanted someone to do something about it - not JKR,
but someone in the ww - it seemed to me that poor Hermione had better want
to teach or marry and breed because otherwise she was going to be stuck for
options.

Both these 'problems' were resolved in OoP. Characterwise Molly, Minerva and
Ginny were fleshed out, we got two female villains, and two new female
characters were introduced and we learnt a lot about them. And as regards
the ww we saw women in positions of responsibility and power proving that
the ww isn't as sexist as it had appeared we just hadn't seen these women
before even though they existed.



bboy_mn
>
> Book that are constructed with the intent to not offend, create
> controversy, mirror all currently correct attitudes and beliefs, with
> out fail are bland, pointless, inane, and trite, and they serve
> neither to entertain, enlighten, nor inform.
>

K

I don't want her to mirror anyone's beliefs or try and write a politically
correct society. I just want(ed) more female characters, or a reason why we
only got to have strong male characters.


>
> > Kathryn:
> >
> > I don't think JKR did it deliberately I think it just happened but
> > the book needed some strong female role-models.
>
> bboy_mn:
>
> Personally, I think that Molly is one of the strongest characters in
> the book. There are few men or beasts who would not cower in the face
> of Molly Weasley in a towering rage. There is no question who rules
> the Weasley 'empire'. She is a fierce, take-charge, no-nonsense person
> who is unafraid to speak her mind; not to mention a generous, kind,
> compassionate, and loving person.  That doesn't sound like such a bad
> role model to me.
>
K

But before OoP all we knew was that she was a motherly woman with a sharp
tongue. That's *it*. That's not a strong character it's a 2d stereotype of a
mother of a large family.

bboy_mn
> Also, we don't know what Molly does all day long while the kids are
> away at school. We assume she sits at home all day sipping coffee,
> eating bon-bons, and listening to the latest witch's soap operas on
> the Wizard's Wireless. Maybe she works. Maybe she is active in charity
> or social organizations. Maybe they raise animals on their farm and
> her job is to tend to them all day. Maybe lots of things, just because
> we (and Harry) don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
>
K

And that's my point. We knew *nothing* about her, she was background noise,
nothing else. I don't particularly want to know what she does all day (my
comments on another thread aside), I want to know something about *her* as a
person. I want to know something more about the women than their role in
life - I want to know them. Consequently I was delighted when we got to know
her better in OoP. I loved the development of Ginny beyond the role of
'little sister' into an actual person. I adored Minerva's interactions with
Umbridge because they told us things about both women. I also loved the
development of the Twins beyond their 2d role as 'practical jokers' into
actual people that I liked (although that really started earlier in the
series). Honestly before OoP I knew more about *Percy* than any of the women
(do I really need to keep typing, apart from Hermione, you all know I mean
that by now, right?) and several people have complained about his 2dness.

K