[HPforGrownups] Re: Does the sorting hat sort?

[Iggy McSnurd]

No: HPFGUIDX 84806

> GEO
> I agree. Afterall Rowling and the books are really big on free choice
> and will over pre-destination, class, genetics and all that other
> stuff. Afterall if it sorted people into their houses by their
> qualities then Harry would have been a Slytherin, Hermione a
> Ravenclaw and Neville a Hufflepuff.
>

Iggy here:

I think it truly sorts people... but that one's free choice goes into it.

Here's what I mean:

I don't feel that you simply chose inside your head what House you want and
get sorted into that House... and only end up in Hufflepuff if you're not
sure.  (For one thing, that makes Hufflepuff the "Hogwarts Dust Bin for
Students," and it also seriously devalues the important contributions of
Hufflepuff House itself.)

What the Hat does, since it can obviously (at least to me) enact Legilimens,
is to sort through the sortee's memories and past choices and uses those to
decide.  Let me give you a few examples here:

Harry - Would have done well in Slytherin because he not only has a certain
disregard for the rules, but also possesses some of Voldemort's being in
himself.  Whenever we have seen him disregard the rules (for the most part)
however, it has been not with intent to further his own ambitions, but
rather to help others.  When it comes down to it, unlike a Slytherin, when
it's important, he ultimately puts others before himself.  I don't really
thing we need to evaluate his qualities of courage, since that's pretty much
clear from what we see in the books.

Hermione - Would have done well in Ravenclaw due to her strong intellect,
cleverness, and sense of logic.  Was put in Gryffindor because she,
especially with her strong logical streak, decided to live in a world that,
in terms of the RW, is completely illogical and attempts to understand it
and do well there.  She also, like Harry, ultimately puts others repeatedly
before herself.  People may say repeatedly that she puts some of her own
interests above others, but I don't really believe she does this when push
comes to shove, and I also don't feel she does this any more than any normal
human.

Neville - Would have done well in Hufflepuff because he plods along steadily
through life, is good at Herbology (which requires the ability to nurture
things) and supports his friends through thick and thin.  Was placed in
Gryffindor, IMHO, because he has been very courageous in his life.  He has
stood up better than most would under what has happened to his parents,
including visiting them regularly.  He is willing to stand up for what he
feels is right, even though it goes against his friend's wishes, and he is
determined to improve and focus his talents when he finds a goal worth
fighting for.  These aren't traits that come on suddenly, they're aspects of
a life lived with feeling this way.

Luna - IMHO, she's a Ravenclaw for a good reason.  Despite the fact that she
has shown great courage, and has faith in the existence of things without
concrete proof, she still has an amazingly clear and realistic view of the
world.  When it comes to the truly important things, like acceptance of what
happens in life and learning from it, and dealing with death issues, or
seeing people's potential pretty clearly, she is a very level headed and
wise person.  Remember, in come lores (like Native American lore) the Raven
is a trickster spirit who can find humor in what it sees, and also sees the
world a bit differently.  I feel that this is manifested quite well in Luna,
which brings out this side of the Raven while the other Ravenclaws bring out
the intellect and analytical parts more.

Draco - Is a Slytherin because he's underhanded, elitest, sneaky,
self-aggrandizing, and works to advance himself and his personal goals at
the expense of others.  IMHO, the quality of ambition alone does not put you
in a particular House, but willing to meet your goals preferably at the
expense of others rather than yourself puts you squarely in Slytherin.
Draco has exhibited this at least a few times in each book.  I also feel
that his family being in Slytherin for generations has an influence as well,
since he grew up in said family, he was also taught their morals (or lack
thereof) and methods for advancing himself.

Ron - The majority of the Weasley family has been in Gryffindor, and this
has an influence on the kids.  I'll also point out that, while panicky and
skittish at times, nervous and occasionally queasy, he still does what needs
to be done.  Since book one, he has shown a willingness to possibly
sacrifice even his own life if the situation was important enough.  (Nobody
had any way of knowing that the chessboard *wouldn't* kill a living, human
piece.)  He has faced his fear of spiders and the Forbidden Forest, he has
been willing to stick with Harry and the rest of the gang in going to the
MoM, and constantly shows courage when what's important is on the line...
even though we know he'd rather not have to.


As I said before when I was addressing Neville, one does not manifest these
qualities suddenly after they are placed into a House, they are placed into
a House because they have shown these qualities in the past through the
decisions the make and how they chose to conduct themselves, even before
they ever arrived at Hogwarts.

So yes, I agree that your choices help determine what House you're put into,
but they are the choices you made in the past, not your choice of House.
(Remember, Harry asked the hat *not* to place him in Slytherin, he didn't
ask it to please place him in Gryffindor.  He didn't chose what House to go
into, he just requested not to go into a particular House.)


Iggy McSnurd