House Choice doesn't Equal Personality for Life

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 85564

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> The people we know best who have "a certain disregard for rules" 
are
> Harry himself and Ron (now joined by Hermione)--all Gryffindors. 
I'm
> pretty certain that Sirius, who empathizes so strongly with Harry 
and
> sees him almost as a reincarnation of James, would not feel that 
way
> if he and James (and Remus and Peter) had not also been 
Gryffindors.

Jen R: 
Here's the full quote from Dumbledore, describing why the sorting 
hat considered Harry for Slytherin: "You happen to have many 
qualitites Salazar Slytherin prized in his hand-picked students. His 
own very rare gift, Parseltongue--resourcefulness--determination--a 
certain disregard for the rules" (COS,US, chap. 18, p. 332).

I agree with your thoughts on Sirius, although I wonder if students 
prior to the rise of LV/DE's viewed Slytherin with the same anipathy 
as the current generation? If Sirius was in Slytherin, he would most 
certainly reject that house, like he did his own family, when he 
found out many Slytherins became DE's. I don't think that fact came 
to light until after they graduated, because in GOF Sirius says: "he 
{Snape} was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out 
to be Death Eaters" (GOF, chap. 27, p. 531). It doesn't sound like 
they were Death Eaters when he was in school with them, nor was it 
all the Slytherins--just one gang.

Carol:
> The member of the Order with the highest regard for rules is, of 
all
> people, Snape, that notorious giver of detention to rule breakers 
who
> happens to be Head of Slytherin.
> 

Jen: I have yet to hear Snape give a Slytherin detention or take 
points from his house! Perhaps it happens out of Harry's earshot, 
but I think Snape, while loyal and mostly obedient to Dumbledore's 
orders, can be selective when it comes to school rules directed at 
students. 

Carol:
> Also as Huntergreen said (and as I noted in another post), we see 
no
> evidence of the quintessential Slytherin trait, ambition, in 
Sirius or
> James (both of whom are rich--JKR has said in interviews that 
James's
> wealth is inherited). Unlike Snape, who put everything he has into
> that lengthy response to the DADA exam, James, Sirius, and Remus 
take
> it almost as a joke (the werewolf remarks, remember?). And poor
> Remus--what kind of ambition can he have, given the universal (and 
not
> entirely unjustified) prejudice against werewolves?

Jen: Ambition doesn't have to be a quest for money. Certainly the 
Order is ambitious in their quest to defeat Voldemort. Ambition has 
come to mean 'greed' in this day and age, but ambition in and of 
itself isn't a bad characteristic. 

The sorting hat said about Slytherins: "Those cunning folks use any 
means to achieve their ends." (SS, chap. 7, 118). The Order members 
don't use sinister means to achieve their ends, but they are willing 
to break laws, break ranks with the status quo, to defeat Voldemort.

Carol:
> Anyway, I sympathize with you in wanting to clear up the 
misconception
> (which is partly the result of Harry's POV) that all Slytherins are
> evil, but I don't think that the MWPP are Slytherins. They're 
somewhat
> recklessly brave and not at all ambitious. Their disregard for 
rules
> doesn't automatically put them in Slytherin any more than it kept
> Snape out. His ambition (and perhaps his fascination for the dark
> arts) put him in Slytherin; their courage (and perhaps their 
antipathy
> to the dark arts) put them (almost certainly) in Gryffindor.

Jen: I'm enjoying considering the possiblity; it's interesting to 
see just how mutable the qualitites of the different characters are 
in regard to their Houses. I stand by MWPP being ambitious, though! 
Becoming illegal animagi, making the Marauders Map, joining the 
Order. MWPP may have directed their energies to self-serving ends at 
times, but they accomplished quite a lot.

Carol: 
> I think putting them in Gryffindor would actually help your 
argument
> that Gryffindors are not necessarily "good" and Slytherins are not
> necessarily "evil." Who better than MWPP to show that imperfect 
people
> ("arrogant little berks"!) can be assigned to Gryffindor? 

Jen: Perhaps at the time of the Pensieve incident, it would help my 
argument to say MWPP were in Gryffindor. During that time James was 
hexing anyone who annoyed him, Sirius picked on Snape because he was 
bored, and Lupin lacked the courage to stop them. 

But as they mature, it does more for my argument if they were in 
Slytherin: something happened to change them from being 'idiots' as 
Sirius calls MWPP in retrospect, to men who show unbelievable 
courage in the face of a losing battle against Voldemort (I assume 
Wormtail showed some courage before turning traitor<g>). 

It's an interesting debate, although in the end I tend to agree MWPP 
were in Gryffindor. Reading all the posts have helped me realize 
that the sorting hat's decision is a gray area at best. We know of 
several people now (i.e. Harry, Hermione, Neville) who were 
considered for other houses before finally being sorted into 
Gryffindor. I would think most people would do well in more than one 
house.