The Shrieking Shack-did Snape have ulterior motives?

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 85708

KathyK:

>But Snape didn't know HRH were there until he arrived at the
>Shrieking Shack, or at least until he found Harry's invisibility
>cloak. He says he saw Lupin running off down the passage to the
>Shack and then disappearing. The Trio and Sirius were already off
>the map. He only knew Lupin was up to something and suspected it
>had to do with Sirius.

Absolutely. Snape has thought all along that Lupin was in league with Sirius. 
Though the instant he saw the invisibility cloak, he must have known he would 
find at least Harry there.

Kathy:K;
>Snape was in the room, though, throughout Lupin's explanation of
>MWPP's experience at school with Lupin being a werewolf and the
>others becoming animagi. And who knows how much he heard before
>sneaking into the room? So he was able to piece a lot of things
>together while Lupin spoke.

Eloise:
For those who haven't read it, I must highly recommend Amanda's message, 
15233, on 'What Snape Knew and When'. In this she analyses exactly what we *know* 
that Snape knows from the Shrieking Shack incident, although, as you say, he 
might have heard more before entering the room. I doubt he did hear more, 
however. He stayed disguised under Harry's invisibility cloak for some time. Why 
would he listen outside the door as well?

KathyK:
>So he didn't have any reason to worry about protecting the Trio
>becuase he didn't know they were there at first.

Eloise:
Indeed, he didn't.

Laura:

>>If, on the other hand, Remus had already transformed, what did he
>>think he could do against a werewolf and a murderer? Why didn't he
>>get some backup?

Eloise:
Quite. He fouled up there. Not only did he not get help, but her went off to 
do what he could, *knowing* that Lupin was potentially unsafe. We could 
suggest it was arrogance on his part. I suspect that it has to do with a deep seated 
need to prove himself.

Laura:
>>I can only infer that Snape was so eager to nail Sirius and Remus
>>that he didn't really care if HRH were killed in the process.
>>Doesn't say much for our boy Sevvie, does it? And then he has the
>>nerve to paint himself as HRH's selfless rescuer. Nice, Snape,
>>really nice.

Eloise:
As has been pointed out, Severus didn't know that the trio were there because 
the Shrieking Shack was off the map. I am certain that he *did* believe that 
Sirius was the traitor and that Lupin was in league with him. We have evidence 
that he has been arguing with Dumbledore over this very point. He is very 
good at putting two and two together but with insufficient data, he was, in this 
case, totally wrong.

So yes, he believes that he *has* rescued Harry from Sirius and James, we now 
have confirmed, *was* a bit of an arrogant prat after all, at least before he 
became Head Boy (I'm dying to find out how that came about). I have a little 
sympathy for Snape's viewpoint. Well, I have a lot. I'm a Snapefan, after all. 
;-)

And after it all, when Snape regains consciousness, what does he do? He 
conjurs *stretchers* that's what, and makes sure that the students whod are in his 
charge get back to the safety of the school. He doesn't even take the revenge 
on Sirius that we might expect (although I've written on the less magnanimous 
aspects of that in the past).

KathyK:

>He could still paint himself as the rescuer because once he was
>conscious, he *did* deliver Black to Fudge, thus protecting everyone
>from a convicted murderer.

Eloise:
Yes. he did the right thing.

I have questioned before why he didn't just summon the Dementors, as he had 
suggested before that he might. One theory I have is that the Dementors had 
been given such a fright by Harry's Patronus that they just didn't want to know 
(I take it that Snape didn't actually witness the Patronus). The other is that 
he wanted to be *seen* to  do the right thing. In a way there was more cachet 
in delivering Sirius alive, sadistically more satisfaction in Sirius hearing 
the sentence being pronounced upon him than in the Kiss being administered on 
him whilst still unconscious. 

I have questioned whether Snape actually *knew* the state of play at that 
point. Would he *know* that Sirius was just unconscious? Might he not assume, 
seeing the unconscious bodies and the Dementors gliding away that *all* of the 
others had been Kissed. I think it might have been a nasty moment for him.

KathyK:
>About the wolfsbane thing...Lupin didn't transform until they'd left
>the Shrieking Shack. There are different theories as to why this
>was so. But whatever the reason, maybe Snape knew Lupin wasn't
>going to be in werewolf form yet and thought he had ample time to
>take care of Lupin and Black. He didn't anticipate HRH being there
>and Lupin's long drawn out explanations. He didn't anticipate the
>Trio knocking him out, either.

Eloise:
Snape is a highly competent wizard. No, he would have no reason to suspect 
that the trio (whom he didn't even know were there before he arrived) would be 
capable of knocking him out (and it was a matter of good fortune that they 
did). 

I am curious as to what state he thought Lupin might be in, though. Of 
course, he has already met him in werewolf form. Maybe the decision to meet him 
again, this time as a fully fledged wizard, was partly an attempt to exorcise old 
ghosts. No James to mess things up by resuing him this time. Either he'd 
prevail on his own merits or he'd fail. Either way, his own worth would be proven.

KathyK:
>Or maybe he was hoping Lupin would have already transformed. Then
>he could kill Lupin and it would be self defense.

Eloise:
I'm sure this was in his mind. 

>>Laura, wondering who Snape would have gone after first if he had
>>been in the MoM that night-Sirius or Bellatrix?<

Eloise:

Bellatrix.

By this stage, Snape knows who's on which side. He may still hate Sirius, out 
of habit, if nothing else, but he knows it was not he who betrayed the 
Potters. I do not believe for one moment that he would have pursued a personal 
vendetta against Sirius, knowing him to be innocent, knowing it to be against 
Dumbledore's wishes.

Bit of an irony, though, isn't it? Snape's been taunting Sirius all this time 
because he hasn't been able to go out, risking his life for the order like 
Snape has. But when the confontation comes, it's Snape who has to hide away so 
that his cover isn't blown and it's Sirius who not only risks, but gives his 
life for the Order.

~Eloise


    
    



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