Animagi vs Patronus / Siblings (was: Lupin/Boar/Madam/Spy!Narcissa/Animagi....)

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 85774

> Iggy McSnurd wrote in
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/85544 :

<< It's not your Animagus form that you don't actively chose, but the 
form of your Patronus that comes from something inside you and isn't 
chosen by the caster. (In some cases, it is probably chosen as an
 animal that you have a particular affinity for.) >>

Catlady Replied:

>>I would like to know the relationship between Animagus form Patronus
form. JKR has said that she would like to be an Otter if she were an
Animagus, and she gave her avatar character (Hermione) an Otter for
Patronus.<<

I think the idea is that the animagus form is an expression of the 
subject's personality, and the patronus form is an expression of 
something familiar or comforting.
This is how Lupin explains them: (chpt 12, PoA)
"The Patronus is a kind of positive force, a projection of the very 
things that the dementor feeds upon -- hope, happiness, the desire to 
survive -- but it cannot feel despair, as real humans can, so the 
dementors can't hurt it."
Then later he says:
"[it] will work only if you are concentrating, with all your might, 
on a single, very happy memory."

I wonder how much interference the memory has on the patronus. When 
Harry casts his firm non-formless one, he's not thinking about any 
particular thought, BUT he was thinking about his father JUST before 
that (what I find fascinating is that the patronus took the form of a 
stag BEFORE he knew what animal 'prongs' was). Hermione's takes the 
form of an otter...why? Maybe because the otter is (generally at 
least) a happy, playful sort of animal. Cho's takes the form of a 
swan, maybe reflecting how much she values beauty, how something 
beautiful (but not altogether deep) could be one of her most happy 
memories. So, perhaps one of Hermione's best memories involves a sort 
of triumphant/playful moment (which doesn't quite fit with her 
character, unless she's thinking of the "you solved it" moment). 

AS for the animagus form, now that's a little more complicated since 
we don't know anything about that process except that its very 
complicated. It is very different than a patronus form, however, 
because a patronus reflects something that a witch/wizard finds 
comforting or warm, and a animagus form reflects the witch/wizard 
themself. 
James is a stag, which could be in relation to his strong, brave and 
somewhat arrogant nature. Sirius is a dog, which must be because of 
his loyalty and bravery, perhaps some sort of territoriality that he 
has (we see something along those lines when it comes to the argument 
between him and Molly), and it could also mean that he's more of a 
follower than a leader (the pensieve scene sort of showed this either 
way, he both was the one 'bored', thus suggesting the whole scene, 
but James was the aggressor, he was mostly following James' lead). 
The reason for Peter being a rat is rather obvious (although you 
think that this would have come up when James and Sirius decided to 
make him the secret-keeper). McGonagall being a cat is rather 
interesting...I suppose cats are very clean, very independent and can 
be very stubborn (I tend to think that if Hermione became an animagis 
she would be a cat too, and that Ron would also be a dog, I have no 
idea about Harry though). 
Another thing about about animagis is that they seem to resemble the 
person some way or another. McGonagall as a cat has certain markings 
around her face that resemble her glasses, and Peter's appearence is 
describe close to Scabbers: "His skin looked grubby, almost like 
Scabbers's fur, and something of the rat lingered around his pointed 
nose and his very small, watery eyes." (another example is how Sirius 
starts to look snuffles-like when he lets himself go). IMO, the 
animal chosen reflects the personality and the 'look' of the animal 
reflects the person's appearence. (this is further complicated by the 
different breeds of dogs or cats, for example, obviously Sirius is 
more like the bearlike dog that a poodle). 

[To digress, the animagis patronus similarity/difference reminds me 
of  boggarts versis dementers. It always bothered me that Lupin 
interprets what Harry fears most as 'fear' when he's afraid of 
dementers if he was most afraid of fear, the boggart would appear as 
a boggart (which it couldn't since no one knows what a boggart looks 
like on its own). A dementer is not exactly fear, but despair or 
misery, which is something to be afraid of, but not fear in it of 
itself.]

Catlady continued:

>>I also want to know, what happens if a person who has become an 
Animagus goes over the whole training again, from scratch, will heesh 
get another animal form?<<

That's a good question. Maybe they would get a different form if they 
did the re-training at an older age. Of course, that makes me wonder 
if the animagis form is the wizard as a whole (down to their very 
core) or of their current personality (I guess that's similar to the 
arguments about what the sorting hat does). IMHO the training can 
only be done once, that you only get one animagi form. 

>>Can a person who is a werewolf become an Animagus? with an animal 
form other than wolf? Can a werewolf who is an Animagus with an 
animal form other than wolf avoid turning into a wolf monster at Full 
Moon by turning into hiser animal before the moment?<<

I would hope not, because then Lupin has been ignoring an easy 
solution for a LONG time. I would guess that MWPP looked into that 
when the rest of them became animagi, but maybe they assumed it 
couldn't be done.



Canis Majorette wrote in
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/85588 :
 
<< I again pose the question of what it may mean that the Black
brothers are named for powerful and revered stars, each with their 
own well developed star lore. What may be implied by each name, and 
the consequent relationship? >>

Catlady:
>>It means that the Black family had (by then) a tradition of
astronomical given names, and that Sirius's and Regulus's parents had
Big Egos and intended their sons to be grow up to be superstar
politicians or CEOs or such.<<

[snip]

Catherine McK wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/85630 : 
<< In fact, are there _any_ mixed-sex sibling groups other than the
Weasleys? >>

Catlady:
>>Yes, the older Boneses: Amelia Bones, her brother Edgar Bones who 
was killed by Voldemort, and Susan Bones's eponymous parent 
(presumably father).<< 

Relating to this talk of siblings...is anyone else bothered by how 
non-close siblings are in the potterverse? Other than Dennis and 
Colin Creevy (and fred and george, who don't count because their 
twins), siblings seem to be annoyed by each other and generally 
ignore each other. I know this is the case in a lot of families, but 
I find it sort of sad that so many of the sibling relationships in 
the series are rather dysfunctional (we have Lily/Petunia, 
Sirius/Regulus, and I'm sure Narcissa and Bellatrix don't get along 
so well with their muggle-marrying sister). 
I'm thinking also of Ron and Ginny. He cares about her, that much is 
clear, but other than that he seems to want nothing to do with her. 
Both of them are the youngest of a large family, and Ron is closer in 
age to Ginny than he is to Fred and George (who are again, twins and 
often exclude him), but they don't seem to have a relationship beyond 
the 'annoying-kid-sister' role. Personally, I've known a lot of 
strong brother-sister relationships in RL (including my own with my 
older brother), and it annoys me to see that possibility ignored (as 
though opposite-gender siblings can't possibly understand each 
other). Perhaps, though, this is due to Harry's POV, they could be 
very close when he doesn't have a friend around, although I doubt it.


-HunterGreen