Bang! You're Dead. (was:Voldemorts animus...)

[mightymaus75]

No: HPFGUIDX 86056

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "mightymaus75" 
<mpjdekker at h...> > 
> > Actually that was me applying fictional ethical principles to the 
> > real world. I would never dare to impose my real world views on
> > JKR to tell her what she can and cannot write. While you may not
> > feel that the original comment was really applicable to you,
> > personally I feel rather strong about the Centaur and Goblin
> > rights to life being trampled here. 
> > 
> 
> Somehow this thread seems to be developing into the equivalent of 
> castigating Green activists because they're not doing enough for 
> Kermit the Frog.
> 
> Erm, you do realise that they're not real, don't you?
> That nobody has suggested killing Centaurs or Goblins in the time-
> line of the books anyway?
> That "A right to life" is just a slogan, a shorthand phrase
> generally used when disagreeing with governmental or judicial
> edicts?
> That everyone can shout it as loud and long as they like, but that
> death, in whatever form, be it accidental or intentional, will take
> absolutely no notice whatsoever?
>
> However, since you seem to be fixed in your views, let me pose you 
> some moral questions within the terms of reference that you have
> set.
> 
> The Goblins appear to be quite unperturbed about inflicting a slow
> and painful death upon burglars. Indeed, they seem to relish the
> thought. Defend this please, particularly with regards to a right
> to life. 
>
> Centaurs have clearly expressed a willingness to kill for the
> heinous crime of trespass.
> Defend this please, particularly with regards to a right to life.
>
> Centaurs attack, with murderous intent, one of their own for
> *associating* with human wizards.
> Defend, as above, and also explain why such speciesist intolerance,
> which, if practiced by wizards, I'm sure you would condemn is, in
> the books, considered to be an understandable, though unfortunate,
> attitude.
>
> I'll be interested to read your answers, perhaps you  may even come
> round to my view that the moralities of the Potterverse are
> necessarily different.
> 
> Kneasy


You do realise I wasn't being serious, don't you?

Still, I don't really see why the behaviour of other species should 
have any bearing on the moral standards of the wizarding community. 
Even if the behaviour of others forces wizards to act in direct 
violation of their own moral guidelines, that still shouldn't effect 
the basic moral standards on which those guidelines are based. 
However, since you seem to insist:

In a world full of magic it apparently isn't possible to run a bank 
without some very severe burglar deterrents. If some of the more 
blood thirsty goblins derive some amusement from this, it is not as 
if they haven't got good reason to do so. The goblins are treated 
very much the same way as oppressed minorities have always been 
treated throughout history: wizards have for centuries been denying 
goblins certain freedoms, the MoM is abusing its powers to short 
change the goblins whenever it feels this is convenient, and now it 
seems the Minister of Magic is planning to rob them of their only 
source of income. It's no wonder that there have been several goblin 
rebellions in the past.

The centaurs on the other hand are a very proud race, which, because 
of humans, has been forced to restrict itself to a limited number of 
habitats. While FBWTFT mentions that unicorns and merpeople are only 
too happy to stay within the territories designated for their use, 
curiously it doesn't mention the centaurs. It's not without reason 
that they react somewhat testy towards humans coming into their world 
without their permission, they themselves aren't allowed to come into 
the human world outside of the habitat. Killing anyone who ignores 
their warning may seem like an overreaction, but then centaurs were 
always more concerned with the bigger picture. Centaurs at least 
don't have a double standard. As you so nicely pointed out they just 
as easily kill one of their own.

Which brings us back to your statement that it's okay to kill 
Voldemort as long as he isn't human. Saying that humans somehow are 
more entitled to live than non-humans *is* a very dubious double 
standard. I never objected to the fact that Voldemort should be 
killed. I would also never presume to judge the morality of other 
cultures. On the other hand, even though the goblin and centaur 
behaviour you mentioned may be understandable and unfortunate, that 
still doesn't mean we have to approve of such behaviour ourselves.  

Does that answer your questions?

-Maus