Is Snape confident was:Re: spoiler warning: Twitchy, prowling Snape?

[junediamanti]

No: HPFGUIDX 86182

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Angel Moules 
<angelofthenorth at c...> wrote:
> The impression that
> we're given of SS is similar. He's had a miserable childhood, and 
rather
> than trusting the Headmaster he's seen at a distance, he goes with 
what
> he knows how to do, and where he thinks he will be valued.
> 
> The DEs at first let him think he's valuable, until he starts to 
realise
> he's only as good as the next potion, the next kill. Whatever 
artificial
> confidence he has been given deserts him, and he's left even worse 
off
> than he was before. Dumbledore finds him, and rescues him, and
> infuses him with the confidence that is needed. 

June:
There is no canon evidence that Dumbledore "found and rescued" Snape 
from the DE.  The evidence we do have comes rather from the remark 
made by DD in GOF which implies that Snape left the DE of his own 
volition.  There have been a number of possible ideas on this board -
 they're all good, and I'm not going to fully re-hash them here.  I 
really do recommend anyone who is new to SnapeTheory to the FAQ and 
Fantastic posts available here - if nothing else, you are guaranteed 
an entertaining read.

These are the main reasons I can remember why Snape might have left 
the DE - and theory owners will hopefully forgive me for not using 
the appropriate acronyms or getting them wrong in some detail:

1.  LOLLIPOPS - don't ask me to remember precisely what the letters 
stand for - but essentially, it posits that Snape had secretly loved 
Lily Evans since their school days - his failure to get her was a 
factor in his joining the DE but when he discovered that Voldemort's 
plans for the Potter family involved their death, then he turned to 
the one person who might be able to prevent this - Dumbledore (I 
must declare an interest here and state that I believe this to be 
true).

2.  BIG BANG - some other major defining moment and including the 
above which impelled Snape to change sides.

3.  GEORGE (correct me if I am wrong here) - no big bang, no love 
blight, just an intellectual decision that the DE was the wrong side 
to be on.  I dispute this, because it presumes a cool level headed 
Severus at the age of 20 which I do not believe his known backstory 
suggests. Snape was IMHO too f****d up by then to be a cool Lenin 
type.

As to where he got his confidence from, I've chewed this one over on 
a number of other boards and some of the conclusions are not 
repeatable here (more's the pity <g>).  However, I suspect the 
change came over time.  He survived a lot.  Crap childhood, lousy 
adolescence, being a member of a terrorist organisation, changing 
sides and risking his life on a daily basis as a double agent, spy 
whatever, and if he WAS in love with Lily, the events at Godrics 
Hollow must have been a bit cataclysmic for him too.  Whether or not 
that was an issue, I suspect he was the person who advised DD that 
the Potters were a target - and the failure of the order to protect 
them cannot have been a pleasant experience for him either.  I 
believe it is his survival skills that have given him confidence. I 
speak from personal experience of bad times here and say that 
whatever does not kill you makes you stronger - so it was for him.

> Against someone who really has confidence, Snape is shown up as a
> fraud. For example, take a look at the film, where you get a shot 
of
> Lucius and SS watching Quidditch. LM is poised, SS is twitchy, 
edgy by
> contrast. 

June:
Please do not take the film to be canon.  As I recall, there is no 
evidence in the books of Lucius being at the Quidditch matches.  Nor 
is there any proof that Snape is "twitchy" either.  

Yet he still has an air of effortless malevolence, 


June:
Not in my 'umble opinion.  Pickyness, irritability, bad-temper and 
sheer bloody mindedness seem to be his stock in trade as a teacher.  
Effortless malevolence seems more the province of the villians in 
LOTR - see Sauron for instance, or Morgoth in the Silmarillion. As a 
baddy - he's just not in their league, sorry. 

that is
> intensified by the presence of his one-time mentor.

June:
Yet again, we do not know for certain that his one time mentor is 
Lucius -I presume you mean Lucius, do you?  For what it is worth, I 
personally believe Lucius may well have been pivotal in Snape's 
being drawn to the DE cause, but I have no real evidence for that, 
apart from Sirius's rather waspish comment, when he and Snape have 
their little face-off in the kitchen at 12 Grimmauld Place, in 
OOP.  "Lucius Malfoy's lapdog".  


> On the other hand, we see Snape with AD at the beginning of Snape 
II,
> and there he is confident, the strength is drawn from AD. He is
> cowed slightly by being told that the matter of expulsion is not 
in his
> hands, but he keeps a poise there.

June:
Snape both wants to get rid of Harry and also just to put the sweats 
up him.  I would in his place too.  I suspect he knows very well 
that Harry won't be expelled at that point, but at then, Harry and 
Ron are caught in a major rule breaking situation - if I was their 
teacher, I'd certainly want to put some major frighteners on them at 
the very least, as I would as a parent if my daughter got up to 
similar stunts.  Taking a "Snape-ish" line can be very helpful to 
any parent dealing with an out-of-order teenager you know!

His confidence is his own and is introduced in his own personal 
chapter in PS/SS "The Potions Master" - as I remember roughly - "he 
spoke in almost a whisper and did not need to raise his voice to get 
the class to pay attention" now I remember teachers like this from 
my own schooldays and can say with absolute certainty that they were 
ALL confident.

Snape is confident.  

June

Keen Snape-apologist.