Help me understand the importance of the prophecy, please

[msbeadsley]

No: HPFGUIDX 82137

Tim Regan wrote:
> 7) neither can live while the other survives . . . 

Kneasy wrote:
> A while back I speculated that this one stretches a bit further
> than you've cast your net.
> The two of 'neither' could be James and Lily, the 'other', Harry.
> So it would be foretold that if Harry is to survive, James and Lily 
> must die. Helps with the elimination of Neville, too. His parents
> survived.
> 
> The rest of the posters were overwhelmed - by apathy!
> If you're interested it was 'That Damn Prophecy - an alternative
> take.' (75081)

leb2323 wrote:
> Wow!  When I read this post the fireworks and allelluiah chorus 
> went off in my head.  I must have missed it the first time around 
> because I reached a point where I was so burnt out on trying to 
> figure out the prophecy that I just began ignoring it and skipping 
> those posts.
 
> This makes perfect sense.  Neither can live while the other 
> survives. They died to protect Harry and had they handed him over 
> presumably LV would have let them live.  Don't we hear him tell 
> Lily in one of Harry's dementor flashbacks that he doesn't want to 
> kill her and just hand him the child?
 
> I hope you get feedback this time because I would love to read 
> response to this!

Now me (Sandy):
Okay, feedback. (I am SO tempted to count the words in the prophecy; 
somebody do it/find a count for me, okay? What a lot of scrutiny this 
one puny paragraph has undergone in such a short time; one would 
think it holy writ. ;-)) First I have to go back to the entire 
passage:

THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD APPROACHES...BORN TO 
THOSE WHO HAVE THRICE DEFIED HIM, BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES...
AND THE DARK LORD WILL MARK HIM AS HIS EQUAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE POWER 
THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT...AND EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE 
OTHER FOR NEITHER CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...THE ONE WITH 
THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD WILL BE BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH 
DIES....

This is something I've been meaning to do just forever (well, since 
OoP came out). The one real rosetta stone I think we have for 
figuring out the first prophecy is the second prophecy (and I hope 
I'm not reinventing the wheel, here):

IT WILL HAPPEN TONIGHT. THE DARK LORD LIES ALONE AND FRIENDLESS, 
ABANDONED BY HIS FOLLOWERS. HIS SERVANT HAS BEEN CHAINED THESE TWELVE 
YEARS. TONIGHT, BEFORE MIDNIGHT...THE SERVANT WILL BREAK FREE AND SET 
OUT TO REJOIN HIS MASTER. THE DARK LORD WILL RISE AGAIN WITH HIS 
SERVANT'S AID, GREATER AND MORE TERRIBLE THAN EVER HE WAS. TONIGHT... 
BEFORE MIDNIGHT...THE SERVANT...WILL SET OUT...TO REJOIN...HIS 
MASTER....

If we surmise that the second prophecy refers to Peter, then it seems 
pretty straightforward, doesn't it? Peter did escape, and did go back 
to LV. He did help LV "rise again." We haven't seen any "greater and 
more terrible" yet, but it very likely is coming in the next couple 
of books, if we take it at face value. Why shouldn't we? What other 
interpretation is there for the second prophecy that doesn't just 
wander right off the map and into the land of "wishing can make it 
so"?

While I dearly love the notion that the first prophecy not may mean 
that Harry has to be either murderer or victim, I don't have a lot of 
belief that it is so. I'd LOVE for that "neither can live" to refer 
back to "those who have thrice defied him." I mean, it could work, 
couldn't it? James and Lily are kind of already mentioned in the 
second phrase of the first prophecy, aren't they? But Harry *asked* 
Dumbledore, essentially, does that mean what I think it means? And DD 
said, I'm afraid so. I think Rowling means for us and for Harry to 
take Dumbledore's word for it. However it works out, however Harry 
manages to defeat Voldemort, I don't believe it will be a result of 
the first prophecy being, essentially, a cheat. I might be more 
inclined to believe it if it weren't for the straightforwardness I 
think we see in the nature of the second prophecy. I think we're 
supposed to pay attention to the second prophecy; we get it first in 
the narrative, and what other *reason is there for it to be there* 
besides as a guide for the reader to use on the first prophecy? My 
guess is that Harry will "die at the hand of" Voldemort, and that 
something about the way that happens will destroy LV. Whether Harry 
gets revived somehow to live a long, happy life and have a bunch of 
kids...well, that's another prophecy.

Sandy