Snape is Number One (was My two cents re:the Prophecy)

[deedeee88]

No: HPFGUIDX 82259

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "smtopliff" <topfor at a...> 
> wrote:smtopliff  said:
> 
> My take on the Prophecy in OOP has been different than other posts 
I 
> have seen <snip>  what if that person is Severus  Snape?!?!
> 
> Talisman, twining bat-shaped love knots in her hair, replies:
> 
> I actually have a section of notes on this, which I can't find 
> (because I've got heaps and files of notes, including scribbles on 
> the backs of envelops, legal pads, grid paper, drawing pads and the 
> backs of old posts.)  Someday I'll get them all sorted out, and if 
I 
> come across the notes and see I've missed something, I'll send it 
> along.  
> 
> I don't place much import in the prophecy, no matter who is meant.  
> But there is as much (or more) evidence to support a Snape 
> interpretation as any other.


You have to in order for you to have faith in Snape being "the one" 
don't you?!?


> 
> What I recall of my Snape considerations follows:
> 
>  I think Snape makes a very good candidate for the One-with-the-
> power. He certainly has the power, and I, for one,  can't wait 
until 
> he is unleashed. (Talisman pauses for a moment to regain control of 
> herself)   


The only way Snape will be all powerful would be, in my opinion, to 
not carry grudges and have so much unfounded anger towards characters 
in the book. (besides Neville and Potter)

> 
> I agree with you that "born" in the prophecy's context doesn't 
> require issuance from a mother's body, but I don't think we need to 
> add the extra "e" (for borne) either.  

I agree, Snape may well have been "born again" (as in a "born again 
Christian").  Perhaps this is one of the major reasons DD "took 
him "back into the fold" again.  The fact that Snape is not ever 
happy with DD's new assignments to the DADA position yet when 
Hogwarts is forced to have a MOM administrator he is no more and he
(snape) is no less angry at the new appointment(feeling hate and 
discontent)--seems more aggravated at the whole situation. (leads me 
to wonder if Snape may have had a role to prevent the entire HP 
tribulation to begin with). Am I the only one who thinks that by book 
seven Snape may actually be the DADA professor?(seems to me that 
Harry has been learning so exponentially that DD will only allow this 
to happen when Snape can no longer harm Harry's learning experience. 
Snape failed too horribly at occlumency in OOP....I tend to believe 
that this will lead to 1. Snape teaching DADA in book six....OR  2. 
in book seven all dreams are realized and he finally gets his 
chance...)  

> 
> The prophesy reiterates the born business: "born as the seventh 
> month  dies" and then (seemingly redundant, but perhaps to 
> underscore the importance of the phrasing?) "will be born as the 
> seventh month dies.."
> 
> Both times we have the same born/dies comparison.
> 
> Of course, months don't literally "die."  This is trope.  
Therefore, 
> a symmetrical analysis of the sentence directs us to use the 
> word "born" figuratively as well.
> 
> To be figuratively born is to undergo a  major life change, 
> especially  a change of heart, as when religious converts speak of 
> being "born again."  
> 
> We know Snape has had a change of heart. 
> 
> Snape's switch could certainly have happened before the end of July 
> 1980.  DD's re-vouching for Snape in the post-Godric's Hollow DE 
> trials suggests that it was a settled matter with DD by that time.  
> Snape may well have been the one who warned DD of the planned 
> attack, again suggesting that he had switched sides before that 
> time.  It would also make for lovely symmetry if Snape's switch 
time 
> mirrored Wormtail's, i.e., Wormtail had been LV's spy for over a 
> year by Oct. 31, 1981, so if Snape had been DD's man for roughly 
the 
> same amount of time, that would make a July 1980 transformation 
just 
> perfect.


Whether I love or hate Snape...I always get the picture that he is 
hopping back and forth...trying to play both sides for all their 
worth before making a final committment. Snape is like the reader to 
suspects and expects the worse in everyone all the time. Ron, Harry, 
and Hermione have a strong distrust in Snape.....all for different 
reasons.  Their "gut reactions" Towards Snape seem to be good 
indicators in keeping them safe.... Snape is an occlumens...he see's 
this in them and modifies his behavior. Snape would be a fool if he 
didn't.

A theory I have.....watchout for Luna Lovegoods reactions toward 
him...She's not afraid of much....I'm looking for a kids view that is 
not close to Harry(not the same house, not whom he normally attends 
classes with) to express their opinions of him.(watch out for Ginny 
who views puzzles as Luna does by the tail end of OOP)

> 
> The people Snape is "born" to are those opposing LV.   Thrice can 
> actually mean "greatly" or it can mean threefold, it doesn`t have 
to 
> mean three temporal incidents.  The Order has greatly defied LV, 
and 
> defies him on at least three philosophical points, e.g.: they 1) 
are 
> willing to die; 2) accept Muggles/the Muggle born; and , 3) eschew 
> Dark Magic.

Were the Weasley's aware of this?!? Many families defied Lord-V 
thrice by this time.  How aware was Molly when she offered help to HP 
to get to platform nine and three-quarters? I don't seem to remember 
her noticing his scar...

Harry has too many numerous encounters with the Weasleys that we 
cannot quite pinpoint....did they not have children to avoid another 
prophecy, only to see what happens in the end?


> 
> Of course Snape bears LV's Dark Mark, but LV will also  become 
aware 
> of the fact that Snape has powers at least equal to his own.  We 
> already know that Snape can best LV at mind powers:  Snape is a 
> greater Occlumens than LV is a Legilimens. 


The great question to this is did LV name snape in the graveyard 
scene in GOF?!?!?!

did Harry actually remember ALL of the DE's circle? Was Snapes 
attention to antidotes not because Harry couldn't DIE of poisoning 
but because he coudl be "out of it" (note pain in the spiderbite 
throughout the graveyard/resurrection scene).
> 
> (N.B. again, Those who really believe Snape is driven by his 
teenage 
> grudges would do well to reflect on the kind of emotional control 
> required to be so great an Occlumens.)
> 
> I expect Snape to show us quite a display of unsuspected powers, 
and 
> not just vampy ones, either.


Key word here is emotions...Snape seems only to be at his greatest in 
these powers around someone he hates/strongly dislikes--thus 
the "worse memory scene"  he did not hate James..just wanted to be 
like Wormtail.....in the fold/clique/group etc...  Hence Harry laying 
on the floor all too often after lessons.(each and everyone)  As for 
DD assigning Snape...DD's mistake...DD IMHO thinks that Snape didn't 
really "teach" Harry because of Serius.
> 
> Snape being the One would also explain why Snape, who has never 
lied 
> to Harry before, is still telling the truth when he says that 
> nothing in the DoM pertains to Harry.  (OoP 538 )
> 

Of course it doesn't DD knows the prophecy already, so Harry can get 
it from "he who favors HP too much already"...(get the picture that 
Snape broke rules at Hogwarts and suffered greatly?!?!?)

> Smt continued:
> > AND, Snape was brought to them by (who else?)  Dorcas Meadowes, 
> the one that Voldemort personally offed <snip>.  

I think Snape would have gone eventually anyhow---there's marriage---
and then there's BABY and marriage....(was/were there other 
prophecies?!?! definitely so..who knows them all...probably prof. 
Treawley...this is why Hermione left the class..to give Harry a 
different perspective. (and Ron with his ridiculous 
predictions)...JKR is telling us yes predictions and tea leaf 
readings and crystal ball gazings mean something...but they don't 
mean EVERYTHING!
> 
> Talisman:
> I think you do well to notice the significance of  LV personally 
> killing Dorcas (esp. since JKR makes the point of telling us how 
not 
> everyone is "important enough" to warrant personal dispatch ).  I 
> don't see any further evidence linking her to the Snape conversion, 
> but I haven't really looked at this angle.  Whatever her role, 
she's 
> worth keeping in mind while we re-read. 


Dorcas makes sense...LV will go after family, friends, acquaintences, 
etc...

Even if wormtail was highly loyal to the Potters...he would never be 
strong against LV's occlumens and whatever else...Was Lily's 
friendship with Dorcas REAL...or did the friendship Dorcas offered 
something different?  This is also a forshadowing IMHO of Hermione 
being in grave danger of associating with Harry and probably LV's 
next target.
> 
> Talisman, for whom Snape will always be The One, no matter what JKR 
> thinks.

Snape can only be the one if he sacrifices himself. Only then will he 
experience a true emotion in its fullest.  Either this, or he will be 
destroyed....

These are just a few of my ponderings..

DeeDee