Could Time-Turner be used to save Black?

[Renee Daniels]

No: HPFGUIDX 82285

Amanda Said:
> So. To Sirius. Harry has experienced that event. Sirius died. If 
he, 
> or anyone, decides to take a time-turner back and saved Sirius, 
> Harry's memory of the event would include Sirius surviving. It 
> doesn't. So nobody *will* be taking a time-turner and doing it, 
> either.
> 
> They may even take a time-turner and *try*--but they will fail, 
> because the event as it has occurred includes Sirius' death. Their 
> presence in the past event may trigger some necessary thing--which 
> happened the first time we as readers perceived it, but did not 
> notice--but it will not *change* the events Harry, and we, 
perceived. 

Me:
You are spot on with the way that a time turner works, IMO. In the 
Wizarding World, the phrase 'you cannot change the past' really 
means that you can not change what you (and others) knew in the 
past. There were two Harry's on the night of the time turner, and if 
any body had been looking at the Marauder's Map Harry Potter would 
have been labled twice.

As for the question, 'Can Sirius be saved with a Time-Turner' the 
answer is YES. The key word is 'perception.' Everybody in the room 
saw what looked like Sirius Black fall through the Veil. That does 
not necissarily mean that Sirius Black fell through the veil.

If at some date after the end of OotP Harry got his hands on a time 
turner, he could theoreticaly go to Grimauld place, go back in time 
and plant a timed port-key on Sirius, toss on his invisiblity cloak 
and join the ministry raid, and as Sirius says his 'last words' 
throw up an amazingly detailed illusion as Sirius is ported out. 
(Admittedly I don't know how powerful illusion is in the Wizarding 
World, but if it can make Hogwarts look like ruins, it can probably 
make air look like Sirius.) 

Or unethicaly, Harry could grab some wizard he doesn't like, put 
that wizard under imperius, Time-Turner back to when Sirius is 
alive, and poly-juice imperius!wizard into Sirius' doppleganger. 
Thus real!Sirius never goes to the ministry, but as far as ever body 
is aware, 'Sirius Black' fell through the veil. TT!Harry and real!
Sirius spent the time between the switch and the time past!Harry 
time-turnered back to save him in the Shreaking Shack playing 
exploding snap.

As long as Sirius stays out of sight until he shows up again, 
nothing has changed. Heck, Sirius could show up at Harry's two days 
after he gets back to the Dursley's and say "Hey kid! a couple of 
days ago you saved my life, here's the Time Turner you used. And 
don't worry, I'll help you plan it." As long as they aren't noticed, 
or everbody agrees to act in the way that Harry remembered, anything 
is possible. In JKR's world reality doesn't change, but what we know 
of it does. The reader is always limited to Harry *current* 
knowledge.


Amanda:
> Besides, plot-wise, she said he's gone. Sorry. Harry will have to 
> make do with the father-figures he has left: Dumbledore, Lupin, 
Mr. 
> Weasley, Snape. (not all father figures are positive, nor should 
they 
> be.)

Me:
For me this is the most telling evidence. JKR has stated that the 
dead stay dead. James and Lily are dead and aren't coming back. 
Sirius is dead and isn't comming back.... Assuming that he died in 
the first place.

~Calimora (who thinks of time travel in the Wizarding World like DNA 
replication, with a leading strand and a lagging strand.)