[HPforGrownups] Muggle world, wizard world

[manawydan]

No: HPFGUIDX 82531

Laura wrote:
>Another thing that could have been going on was that magic was being
>distinguished from religion.  That is, as monotheism took root and
>belief in one all-powerful God became the norm, people didn't look to
>other human beings to control nature, read omens or channel divine

Although modern Paganism certainly does link magick and religion, Classical
religion had a strict separation between the two (I'm speaking of our world,
of course). My feeling was that there had to be a "key moment" in the
Potterverse when wizardry realised that _they_ had to introduce such a
separation and the "great discovery" seemed to be the front runner for that
moment.

>I'm not sure about the squib thing-I don't see any evidence that
>either Figg or Filch is especially gifted psychically.  And where do
>they use magical devices?

The biggest example in canon is Filch's ability to use the Room of
Requirement to meet his needs for supplies. My comment about psychic ability
stems from both Figgy's and Argus's ability to see through magical
concealments. When Filch leaves the Hogwarts environs, he seems perfectly
able to find his way back, even though it's hidden from muggles. Similarly,
Arabella is able to see the dementors in Little Whinging. And there's the
thing with the cats, of course.

>Also, I have to say that laying the onus for the persecution of
>witches on Christianity and Islam isn't fair.  They got that from us,
>I'm sorry to say.  Not to stray too far off topic, but I looked this

We don't of course know how religious history worked in the Potterverse. The
key questions to ask would be: did the Diaspora happen there also? and when
exactly did the period of persecution of magical people begin?

As I tried to imply, there _could_ be no tie up at all between religion and
the persecution, or it could be all-important. It's such an arcane point
that I suspect it'll never be made clear in the forthcoming 2 books!

>All this, however, doesn't really get to what Kneasy was asking: is
>the WW a physical place or something metaphysical or both, somehow?
>I think it has to be metaphysical.  It seems like an overlay onto the
>muggle world (remember overhead projectors?).  Magical power inheres
>in the people who possess it rather than in any place or thing.

Yes, I think it's implicit in my post that the two worlds coexist.

>If magic ability is a sort of energy, I wonder if it would be
>measurable somehow.  We can measure people's physical strength and

But would it be measurable in any way that a muggle could comprehend? Given
the wide range of functions that magic can fulfil in the WW, any muggle
scientist who tried to research it would need to invent an entire new
technical language to try to comprehend something which in our terms defies
logic and can cause gross changes in physical reality.

>varying degrees of magical power in witches and wizards-not everyone
>is selected to attend Hogwarts, and we must assume that that has
>something to do with ability.  Still, it's a personal thing-it

Though an alternative explanation is that Hogwarts attendance is decided
culturally rather than in terms of ability.There's no suggestion, for
example, that the predominant group in the student body is either those with
very high or very low levels of magical ability. My own alternative is that
attendance is aimed partly at muggleborns (who need to be accultured into
the WW) and partly at those students from families who want their children
to have a qualification in magic either for prestige reasons or because they
see it as a good career move (rather than going into the family eel farming
firm, for example)

Cheers

Ffred

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