Neville's Role in Books Six/Seven

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 82672

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "celebrimborcormacolindor" 
<henning2 at t...> wrote:
> Well, after reading hickengruendler's post I think I must clarify 
two 
> points. First, I never intended to question Neville's courage.

Okay :-)

> My 
> point is not about courage and cowardice, but about heroic and 
> pathetic characters; and with all his courage, Neville is not an 
> heroic character, but a pathetic one.

I only agree partly with you in this point. Of course he envokes pity 
and is in many ways a bit pathetic, but nonetheless I would call him 
a heroic character. I think his actions are heroic enough, even if he 
doesn't suceed.

> We smile when he tries to stop 
> Harry, Ron and Hermione when they go for the Philosopher's Stone in 
> SS/SP 16; we cry when he shouts "STUBEFY! STUBEFY!" to the Death 
> Eaters in OotP 35; and it breaks our hearts to see Bella using the 
> Cruciatus Curse on him. In all this his courage only emphasizes his 
> naïveté, his defencelessness and his clumsiness, moving us to that 
> compassionate pity that is the hallmark of the pathetic character. 

Yes and no. I agree completely with you about the part when he tries 
to stop the Trio in book 1, but although I see your point, I don't 
really agree with your opinion about the part in the Department of 
Mysteries. Mainly because Bellatrix didn't simply use Crucio on him. 
She threatened to do so, and then Neville told Harry, not to give her 
the prophecy, although he knew what was coming. And then Bellatrix 
used Crucio on him. That means he basically was willing to sacrifice 
himself for a greater good, and that shows IMO that he is also a 
heroic character. And there was a reason why he was defencelessness 
in this scene. His nose was broken and he therefore wasn't able to 
pronounce the spells correctly. Before this happened, he did a 
stupefy spell (it was in the time room, however the spell missed his 
aim). Of course even if he wasn't handicapped, he would have had no 
chances against all of the Death Eaters, but the same is true for the 
other members of the D.A., even Harry (at least yet). And Neville 
saved Harry's life during the battle, when MacNair tried to strangle 
Harry.
  
 
> So, when I say that until now Neville is a secondary character, I 
am 
> not criticizing the poor boy, I am not criticizing the readers who 
> sympathize with him, and certainly I am not criticizing JKR.

That wasn't what I meant to say. Sorry, if I expressed myself not 
clearly enough. :-) I just wanted to make clear the point about the 
general flair, with which you agreed.

 
> 
> Now, I must say that in my opinion Hagrid is a different case. You 
> cannot supress Hagrid's actions without producing significant 
changes 
> in the story. Hagrid is not only the man who rescued Harry when 
> Harry's parents were killed; Hagrid is also the man who knew how to 
> pass by Fluffy, he was the boy expelled from Hogwarts thanks to 
> Riddle, he raised the hippogriff that saved Sirius, he saved the 
> centaur who now teaches at Hogwart's and so on. If you suppress all 
> this, you will have to change (a) the obstacles in the way to the 
> Philosopher's Stone, (b) the story of Tom Riddle, (c) the story 
about 
> Buckbeak's trial, (d) the docents of Hogwarts School. Hagrid's 
> actions have consequences in a way that McGonagall's actions (and 
> Neville's actions) have not, at least until now. This makes him a 
> much more important character in the development of the story.

Okay. You are right.
> 
> Ginny is less important; nevertheless she is the girl who was 
> possessed by Tom Riddle in CS. Fred and George are even less 
> important to the conflict; but they are mini-stars in OotP 29, when 
> they make their spectacular flight to freedom under the nose of 
> Umbridge. And, if I was forced to put Neville somewhere in this (to 
a 
> certain extent subjective) ranking of importance, I will put him 
> right here, after the twins and before Percy, who has the important 
> role of a pain in ... well, you know what I mean ;)

Yeah, right after I sent this post I thought about Ginny's part in 
CoS, and of course it is important. The scenes with the twins are 
entertaining and I like them, but nonetheless they are not necessary 
for the tale (yet). But I like characters like Neville, the twins, 
McGonagall and Percy far better than most of the main characters, 
especially Hagrid (what was probably the reason, why I included him 
at first here, which wasn't really objective, I admit), therefore I 
would really miss them. *g* But like I alraedy that, I think that 
every potential allie is important for the future, because the few 
main characters are IMO not enough to defeat Voldemort and his army 
of Death Eaters, Dementors and giants. And for this it is important 
to flesh them out, that we care about them. 

Hickengruendler