James and Snape was OT:To Jeff

[jeffl1965]

No: HPFGUIDX 82800

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> -
     Jeff:

> >     But how long was it after the pensive that the other incident 
> > occured? A few months? I'm still not convinced that after 
> torturing  Snape daily, as Draco does the trio, that one day after 
> he might've  performed another prank that suddenly he'd decide 
> that he has to go  against his best friend for a geek he hates.
> 
> <snip> 
> >    Would James want snape dead? Maybe not, but let's not 
> forget that  we don't know what spell Snape intended to use on 
> James, and that he  started to draw his wand first. I'm guessing 
> that James knew about  what was planned much earlier, but 
> might've changed his mind, or been  asked to stop it by 
> someone else.<<
> 
  Pippin:

> Harry saved Peter, who helped murder his parents, from Sirius 
> and Lupin who were ready to kill. Harry  didn't  want Sirius and 
> Lupin to become killers, despite having every reason to hate and 
> despise Peter. Might not James have felt the same way? 
> 
   Jeff:

      There isn't enough evidence in canon to make a qualified 
judgement on what James was really like. I could be foolish and say 
that you're correct, or even state that you're wrong and he was a 
total arse. Since I see no real evidence either way, I'd have to 
state that I don't know.  Personally, I'd have killed Snape, or let 
the others do it. :)


   Pippin:
> Being a bully doesn't mean you'd kill your victim--bullies want 
> their victims alive so they can abuse them some more. As 
> Quirrell says, Snape hates Harry, but he never wanted him dead.
> 
  Jeff:
   That is true in most cases. Some bullies (and their victims) have 
been known to kill. I don't really think of James as a total bully, 
since we only see *Snape's* memory of that day. Not what he had done 
to James earlier nor anything else to give any indication of how 
things became what they were on that day. While I agree that victims 
of abuse do become abusers themselves, judging by the fact that Snape 
was a slimy git even then, leads me to believe that his "warm and 
caring" attitude that he shows today was perhaps present even then. 
Perhaps James, like Harry, didn't like it, but James was in more of a 
postion to do something about it than Harry is, since Harry is a 
student and Snape a Professor. 

   Pippin:
> The precipitating factor for the Prank wasn't something that 
> Snape had done, but the fear of what  he could do, now that he 
> knew where Lupin went. Snape would be watching the Willow 
> and that would put a stop to the Marauders' werewolf 
> walkabouts. That gives Lupin the best motive for killing Snape, 
> but Sirius might have been persuaded or manipulated into 
> helping him do it.
> 
> Suppose James had done nothing. Snape's death would have 
> seemed to be a horrible accident . There'd be no Snape around 
> to say that Sirius had told him how to get into the Willow. The 
> Hogwarts governors would want the whole thing hushed up, so 
> in the ensuing cover-up, Sirius and Lupin might have escaped 
> exposure. A desperate gamble, but for Lupin, who says that his 
> friends' company was the only thing that made his 
> transformations bearable, it might have been worth it.
> 
> 
>  James didn't only save Snape, he caught him out of bounds. 
> The Willow was forbidden because of Davy Gudgeon's eye. 
> Snape  could have been expelled if he was caught there  again.
> Ergo, no more spying, and the Marauders' secret remained safe. 
> Whether James  deliberately waited to interfere until Snape had 
> entered the Willow, we don't know. 
> 
> 

   Jeff:
   The fact is, we don't know all the details. What has Snape done 
prior to that day? Had he been spreading his usual joy and happiness 
he's known for to them for 4 years? Had he attacked each of them 
prior, and cost them points, or even some worse punishment? We don't 
know. To present Snape as the helpless victim based upon one scene is 
silly. Snape appears to be the same punter he's shown to be in all 5 
books. Again, I say that at this time, somebody, namely James, was 
getting the best of him, something nobody has been able to do since. 
   Snape was looking for a way to make real trouble for the boys, and 
I'm sure that Sirius never really thought that any harm would come to 
him. Sirius is a prankster, and a big kid, but not a murderer, 
regardless of how it might look. I really think that had Snape been 
harmed seriously, that aside from a few bravado based remarks in 
public, he would've been horrified that any real harm or death became 
of a prank. Even if it was Snape.
    What about James' actions? I'm guessing that maybe he was told of 
the plan right before he ran out there, and he realized the danger 
that Sirius didn't. Or as I said before, he hadn't planned on doing 
anything until he thought it over, or maybe after Lily somehow found 
out and pointed it out to him. There are countless reasons that we 
can only guess at and hope that we're told which one is correct by Jo 
someday. ;)


  Jeff