Harry/Snape similarities (was Angry people)

[junediamanti]

No: HPFGUIDX 83058

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Woodward, Deirdre" 
<dwoodward at t...> wrote:
> Are you kidding me?  The idea of Harry and Snape being similar in 
any but coincidental ways is so outrageous that I can only think you 
are being deliberately provocative.  

June:
Well that makes two of us.  I believe they are both a study in 
contrasts and similarities at the same time.  
>  
> The two characters are hero and foil, and, as such, are a study in 
contrasts.
> 
> Harry is an orphan raised by relatives who, while they dislike 
him, dote on their son.  Harry feels in his own heart that his 
parents loved him dearly.  Snape was raised by parents whose 
fighting and parental techniques left him permanently scarred.

June:
We are unable to tell at this stage whether Harry's upbringing will 
leave any permanent scars.  Certainly, IMHO, JKR is making it very 
clear that this is a possibility, given Harry's very real anger at a 
number of issues.  Here's the first area of similarity - both Snape 
and Harry carry considerable anger baggage (can you carry anger 
baggage? Well, now you can!).  Harry's anger is because he is forced 
to live in a family where he is despised and because he has very 
little knowledge of his own background and heritage and it turns out 
that much of this has been kept from him.  

For what it is worth, I believe that JKR will work towards a happy 
conclusion for Harry and that he will not have lasting damage 
because of his upbringing. 

I also feel no such happy outcome is being scheduled for Snape.  He 
is largely what Harry COULD become if things go badly wrong.  Sure, 
his background is more like a mirror image that we realise - it is 
to some extent Harry's life turned upside down.  He knows his 
identity and background, but the similarities are there in the 
common experiences of bullying and humiliation.  
> 
> Harry didn't know he was a wizard until he was 11.  Snape, we can 
presume by his position as head of Slytherin, is wizard-born.

June:
We can assume he is wizard born - but please remember it is no more 
than an assumption.  Weight is added by his Slytherin background and 
also his use of the Mudblood racial slur.  Not proof however.  

> 
> Harry arrived at school knowing no one and in 60 days makes close 
and lasting friendships.  Snape is described as a loner, and to this 
day has no friends mentioned in the books.  He alienates almost 
everyone he comes into contact with.

June:
Well actually - no.  He was part of a gang at school of Slytherins 
(who may well have all turned out to be Death Eaters - but they were 
still friends) so he did have friends.  In addition, whatever you 
think of Snape, he seems to get on well with his colleagues.  They 
may well feel exasperated by him, but both Dumbledore and McGonagall 
seem to regard him with affection - very considerable affection in 
the case of DD and Snape seems to have a rather warm if friendly 
rivalry with Minerva too.  There is the kind of almost friendly 
competition they have as heads of rival houses which I believe is 
fairly explicit in canon.  So he doesn't alienate mature adults. In 
addition to this, he is seen in the opening parts of OOP as being 
almost eagerly awaited by the rest of the order for his report.  In 
one scene he is surrounded by the other members - this does not 
speak of alienating others to me.  Rather the opposite.  I see a 
character who can often be infuriating but who you might like - from 
an adult perception because they are waspish and sarcastic but very 
droll and amusing too.  And clever.  That would be important to me.

 
> In COS, Harry is disliked by fellow classmates because they fear 
his powers.  Harry responds by feeling bad for himself but focuses 
on his homework, stays out of people's way, and eventually shows his 
schoolmates -- through an unselfish act of heroism -- that their 
distrust of him was unfounded.  Snape is disliked by his classmates 
and his fellow employees, and his response is to study the dark 
arts, belittle people, and thoroughly earn his reputation as a mean, 
angry person.  When given a chance, Snape attempts to rig outcomes 
to his advantage (Quidditch match in SS/PS, awarding and taking away 
house points without real reason).

June:
No.  He was not trying to rig the outcome of the Quidditch match - 
though most Gryffindors were ready to believe that.  He was in fact 
trying to save Harry's life.

> 
> Harry is kind to his fellow classmates, although at times he 
certainly attempts to circumvent the attentions of the Creevys.  
Snape is mean to most people, except fellow Slytherins.

June:
Or Gryffindors whose life he is trying to save... He may well have a 
sharp tongue and appear intolerant.  For my part, I'd be inclined to 
overlook a few sharp words if someone tried to save my life.
> 
> Harry likes working in groups and has a network of friends who 
care deeply about him.  In the development of those friendships, 
Harry encounters conflict and is willing to resolve that conflict so 
the friendship continues.  Snape works in a group of people but 
doesn't appear to have any friends.  Snape is a proven traitor to 
his friends.

June:
Hello?  What evidence is there of this?  Which friends did he 
betray?  Do you mean Rosier and Wilkes?  FYI I believe it WAS Snape 
who betrayed Rosier and Wilkes.  I also believe they must have been 
very nasty DE's indeed - judging the the fight Rosier put up when 
cornered (accounting for a large part of Moody's nose).  If they 
were so very nasty - should we really be criticising Snape for 
fitting them up - rather we should be sending petitions to the 
Prophet for his being awarded the Order of Merlin.  I do not 
personally regard ratting on a bunch of murderers as betrayal - nor 
do I consider loyalty to an evil cause praiseworthy.


> 
> Harry is skilled in flying and in charms. Snape refereed one game 
but there is no other mention of his broomstick ability. I believe 
that at one point, Snape denigrates charm work (I think -- I will 
need to look this up). Snape is skilled in potions, a subject in 
which Harry struggles.

June:
I think we can take it as a given that if he is up to refereering a 
Quidditch game then he can fly competently at the very least.  What 
he says about charms (though it's not specifically about charms) is 
his famous entry speech about wand waving.  

> 
> Harry stands firm in his beliefs.  Snape is a once and possibly 
twice turned traitor.

June:
"I trust Severus Snape" thus says Dumbledore.  There has been 
considerable debate on this board about whether Dumbledore is right 
to trust Snape.  I'll tell you why I believe Dumbledore.  Because he 
is so very bald in his defence.  No justifications, no long 
complicated explanations - just that simple statement.  Take it or 
leave it.  Dumbledore speaks with such plain confidence because he 
KNOWS it is true and for reasons which we do not - yet.


> 
> Certainly, there are times when Harry is angry, thoughtless, and 
unkind.  But those aren't his personality traits, those are his 
weaknesses.  We see him in those states and expect him to overcome 
them as part of his character development.
> 
> Snape, on the other hand, is angry, thoughtless, and unkind 
*because* that's his personality.  When (if) we see him in kinder 
states, we expect him to revert back to being mean because that's 
his character development.

June:
Weaknesses ARE personality traits.  If a characteristic is a fault 
in one person, it cannot be a virtue in another.   If it's a bad 
thing to lose your temper - then it's bad.  End of story - the fact 
that one person does it doesn't make it right.  I personally believe 
that the temper in both characters is explicable and probably 
forgivable.  

To dismiss Snape as just a meanie is to kind of ignore a genuinely 
GREAT character.  He may not make that many friends but boy, he sure 
does influence people.  He's complex.  He's difficult.  What is 
going on in his mind?  That's what I'm hanging on to find out.  
> 
> There are no frightening similarities between the two characters.

The similarities don't frighten me at all.  A number of adult 
characters are in the books for us to look at - I feel there are a 
number of possible options being set up for Harry to become.  Snape 
is a bitter person who probably has a deeply tragic backstory - 
which is being slowly (too slowly!!) revealed by JKR.  I believe a 
good deal of this backstory may prove to be pivotal to the future 
plot development of the books.  However - there are similarities and 
while I do not believe JKR is even setting us up to see Harry as 
becoming a future Snape, she has cleverly (in OOP) begun to unveil 
the enigma that is Snape.  

A real plot twister is to set up a character who the hero hates, and 
then reveal him to be very similar in a number of ways. They are not 
the same, but I believe they DO share a great deal of common ground.

June

"DENNIS: Listen.  Strange women lying in ponds disributing swords is 
no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power 
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical 
aquatic ceremony."

Monty Python and the Holy Grail.