Something I'd like to see in the Books (Long)

[Wendy]

No: HPFGUIDX 83121

Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at a...> wrote:

"Going back to my initial point, if JKR had shown teachers spending
time in the classroom teaching ethics etc., it would have slowed up
the pace of the book; a number of readers would have felt that they
were being lectured. Instead you gain a subconscious insight into the
structure of what goes on, rather as much of our own personal
development will have taken place without formal instruction by
following examples - close family and role models whom, for some
reason, we trust and feel comfortable with and, as a result, begin to
model ourselves on. Perhaps things go wrong in the wizarding world as
in the real world when we look at the wrong role models or lack folk
in whom we can place a complete trust."

Now me (Wendy):

Okay - I see your point, and I do agree that watching Harry sitting 
through ethics class might not be the most interesting read. <g> But 
there are two separate points that come to mind in reading your 
message: 

First, in my original response, I was looking at the Potterverse not 
as a series of books and what I would like to read in those books, 
but treating it as a real place (this is generally how I approach my 
analysis, although it's certainly not the *only* way to analyse the 
books). If what we've seen in the books is a good indication, I 
personally feel that the students at Hogwarts are *not* receiving 
enough guidance in matters of ethics. I'd like to know that they are 
getting formal training, or see better role modeling than what we've 
seen to date. Earlier in this thread, someone (don't remember who 
and can't seem to find the quote - sorry!) mentioned that ethics 
training is probably integrated into each individual class. JKR 
could easily show us an example of this in just one of Harry's 
classes to show us that this is how ethics training is delivered. 
So, I'm not suggesting that she spend a lot of page time on ethics 
classes, but I would like to know just what sort of training Harry 
(and other children in the WW) receive in this area.

Second, and more importantly, I think you're spot-on in your 
comments about role models - and it's exactly that "subconscious 
insight" which disturbs me. IMO, we've seen a lot of *very* poor 
role-modeling so far in this series, and I would be disturbed to see 
Harry begin to pattern his own behaviour on that of, say, 
Dumbledore, or Arthur Weasley, both of whom seem to be put in the 
category of "good role-models." There are a lot of examples I could 
use, but I'll point out just a few:

Dumbledore's handling of the point-giving at the end of PS/SS. I 
don't have a problem with him giving the points to Gryffindor, but I 
think that awarding those points as he did, in the middle of the 
leaving feast when the Slytherins thought they'd won, was terribly 
bad form, not to mention bad strategy for improving house relations. 
It was cruel, a slap in the face to the Slytherin kids (and most 
probably to Snape, as well), and it also seemed to me to be an 
action that was likely to create a lot of resentment in those 
Slytherin kids. If this is the way Dumbledore treats them, is it any 
wonder they might turn to someone else (Voldemort, perhaps) if the 
opportunity arises?. (I also think this is exactly what happened 
with Snape when he was a student, so it seems Dumbledore doesn't 
have much capacity to learn from his mistakes). Sure, in that moment 
at the leaving feast, the Gryffindors (and the Hufflepuffs and 
Ravenclaws, for that matter), were thinking that Dumbledore was 
doing a fantastic thing - getting back at those "nasty" Slytherins. 
But I'm concerned that what he was really teaching them is that it's 
okay to humliate your enemies if you can, and then gloat about it 
afterward. I don't personally think this is a good lesson in any 
way - also not what I'd call good role-modeling.

As for Arthur Weasley, he is portrayed as a lovely guy, right? And 
still it is obvious that, while he *likes* Muggles, he doesn't think 
of them as equals - he seems to think that they are like rather 
stupid children who occassionally manage to do something clever. 
We've also seen him create a loop hole in Ministry law so he could 
tinker with his illegal car, and receive tickets to the Quidditch 
World Cup for helping a friend (Otto Bagman, Ludo's brother) get out 
of a jam with an illegal lawnmower. Also, not good role modeling. 
IMO, of course.

And, as I pointed out in my earlier message, I'm most disturbed 
about the use of Obliviate - it seems like that spell gets tossed 
around frequently and we've yet to heard a single word about the 
ethics of altering someone's memory. At worst, it's seen as okay for 
Wizarding folk to change someone's memory for whatever reason, no 
questions asked. At *best* (and I use that term loosely), it's only 
okay to use Obliviate unrestrainedly on Muggles. Which again brings 
us to the very ugly question of basic human rights. Good role 
modeling? Absolutely not. An accurate reflection of the sorts of 
things we see happening in real life? Yes, I think so. 

So, I think that many of these things are *not* shown to us as 
examples of things not to do, because the wizard in question often 
has no bad consequence as a result of dodgy moral actions. In some 
cases, this bad behaviour is actually rewarded (Arthur receiving 
*really good* tickets to the QWC, for example). It looks to me like 
this sort of stuff is just business as usual. Of course, maybe 
*that's* the point - maybe the WW really is morally bankrupt, and 
this will be a big issue in the final books. 

There *are* times when good ethics are role-modeled, but I see so 
many examples where they are *not* (and rather glaring examples, 
IMO), that I really hope JKR is going to go somewhere with these 
things in the future. I don't necessarily want to hear a Binn's-type 
lesson on ethics, but I would like to hear some of these troubling 
issues addressed in *some* way in future books. 

Cheers!
Wendy