Percy Ignatius Weasley

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 83548

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jdr0918" <jdr0918 at h...> wrote:
> <<<In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Mary Jo Neyer" wrote:...My 
> hobby is genealogy, and when I find someone named Ignatius in my 
> research, the name always means that the family was Roman Catholic 
> at the time the name was given. 
 
> The Sergeant Majorette says
<Snip>
> The wizarding wardrobe, with its long medieval robes. It never 
> occurred to me before, but maybe this is one of JKR's references  
> [to the Jesuits]. (Yeah, and the schools with the black-robed 
> teachers and the repressed sexuality -- if that doesn't make me   
> feel 40 years younger!) 

Pip!Squeak:
Except black gowned teachers and repressed sexuality could be 
any 'good' UK school up to about 1980. Teachers in the UK 'top' 
schools would wear a black academic gown over their clothes when 
teaching. On full formal occasions, they would also wear the 
coloured hood showing that they had a University degree.

As for the 'repressed sexuality' - see the 'No sex please, we're 
British' thread ;-)

The Sergeant Majorette:
<Snip> the Weasleys, with their hoard of red-headed 
> children, are stereotypically Irish Catholic; 

Pip!Squeak:
No, no, no, no! Please don't fall into that trap. Red hair isn't 
really stereotypically Irish in the UK. If red hair has any 
stereotype, it's more Scottish ('Irish' red hair probably got 
imported from Scotland, or maybe from the Vikings ). 

But in fact, generations of movement has meant that you find red 
heads throughout the UK and Ireland. A red headed family just 
suggests a family of red heads. Honest. 

I agree that the Weasley's have a Roman Catholic 'feel', what with 
the large family and giving a child an obvious Saint's name for the 
middle name. But as I argue in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/80008
that doesn't mean Irish Catholic. 

I dunno what version of the history of the English Reformation you 
got, ;-) but if it was the one that told you that England went 
entirely Protestant after the Reformation, then that was 
an 'oversimplification'. [History speak for 'they lied']. There are 
a fair amount of Roman Catholics in the modern UK who would trace 
both their family and their religious denomination back to England 
or Scotland, and not particularly to Ireland. 

The Sergeant Majorette:
Snape is *such* a 
> Jebbie, and MacGonagall *such* a Sister Mary Discipline; if Father 
> Matthias Lynch from my old parish had had more facial hair (and 
> humor), he would have been Dumbledore.
> 

Pip!Squeak:
I also went to a Roman Catholic school for part of my education - 
Hogwarts feels much more like my multi-denominational non-RC  
secondary school than my RC school. There are no compulsory masses, 
for a start ;-)

And 'Snape' was a recognised teaching style in the UK, possibly 
still is (unfair, sarcastic, but gets excellent grades from pupils 
[largely because his pupils are too terrified to risk failing]). 
Every school had one (in mine it was 'Ms Snape' ). 

Likewise McGonagall, who reads 'professional schoolteacher - stern 
but fair division'.

Similarly, Dumbledore reads as 'kindly but just' headmaster, 
straight out of 'Stalky and Co.'. He hides in his office so much 
because he is simultaneously trying to work out both how to save the 
Universe and how to adjust the school timetable so Professor Snape 
doesn't need a time-turner to teach his Potions lessons this year ;-)

The Sergeant Majorette writes:
> Anyway, there probably *is* religion in the WW: not in the sense 
> of deep abiding faith or the relationship of the individual to his 
> community or his God, but in the sense of where a baby makes its 
> white-lace debut, or where your wedding is held, or when the 
> stores are closed, or what you call the winter holiday.

Pip!Squeak:
If the WW reflects the modern UK, then it will have three quarters 
of the population with that sort of religion. But I think JKR has 
chosen not to attact particular 'denominations' to people for a very 
different reason.

Mary Jo wrote:
> However, in the WW we don't have any  religions, so I don't think 
> is really relevant...

OK, so *why* don't we have any religion in the WW? Why do we not 
know whether the Weasley's are Roman Catholic, Anglican, not 
bothered or whatever? Luna talks very firmly about meeting her 
mother again when she dies herself - but even though that's a 
religious statement, Luna's religion is not identified.

No character in the WW has an identifiable religion. Not one. We're 
not even sure whether Voldemort is non-religious, or sold-his-soul-
to-evil-for-power religious. [Yes, folks, selling your soul to evil 
in exchange for power is 'religious'. You have to believe in a) a 
soul and b) an evil supernatural power before you can do it. ;-) ]

One of the things JKR is examining in her books is prejudice. One of 
the major prejudices in the UK-and-Northern-Ireland is religion. 
Famously in Northern Ireland, less famously but still present in the 
mainland UK. There are UK cities where you select your football team 
according to your denomination. I've seen reporters in national 
magazines announce that X shouldn't have been given that job because 
they are of Y religion, and that will make them 'biased'. [Insert 
whichever religion or denomination you like for Y, including 
atheism. I've seen most of them suggested as 'bias']. 

So if JKR wants to examine prejudice by *only* using a prejudice 
specific to the Wizarding World (and having RW prejudices only 
mentioned in passing by the Dursleys) then she can't use or mention 
religion. 

If she mentions (for example) that the Malfoy's have a nominal 
Protestantism, but the Weasley's are devout Roman Catholics, then 
most of the UK will not only *expect* the Malfoys and the Weasleys 
to hate each others guts, but they're quite likely to take sides 
based on their own background.

Similarly with non-Christian religions. She can't use them - readers 
will bring their own prejudice to the character. Even Voldemort-as-
atheist will be seen by some parents as 'religious propaganda' 
[grin].

So I suspect 'religious characters' are like 'gay characters'. I'm 
darn sure that they are actually there, but that this particular 
characteristic will stay firmly in the background of the 
characterisation. Otherwise, our real life prejudices will get in 
the way of what JKR actually wants to say.

Pip!Squeak