Pensieves objectivity AND: Dumbledore's integrity (was Prophecy problems)

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 79413

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
<snip>
> 
> 
> Dumbledore does lie (mainly by misdirection). In the last chapter 
of PS/SS, *before* he gives Harry his 'no lies' promise, he tells 
Harry that preventing Voldemort's return 'will merely take *someone 
else* who is prepared to fight what seems a losing battle next 
time ...  [my emphasis].
> 
> So, there is a choice. Choice one: Dumbledore is lying by 
> misdirection in PS/SS. He tells Harry that he does not bear the 
> burden of defeating Voldemort, *someone else* can also fight 
> Voldemort and delay if not defeat him. 
> 
> This line is said in what we are told in OOP is Dumbledore's full 
> knowledge of the prophecy. If Dumbledore truly believes that Harry 
> is 'the one' of the prophecy, he's lying when he tells Harry that 
> (by implication) Voldemort can be defeated by continual delay, and 
> you don't have to worry about it.

Delaying Voldemort's arrival indefinitely is *not* defeating him, and 
this implication is clear in PS. That's the whole point Dumbledore is 
trying to make. In light of the prophecy, I'd say that Dumbledore was 
saying that to himself, as much as to Harry. It made it possible for 
*him* (DD) to ignore the fact that only Harry can truly defeat 
Voldemort. By postulating a whole array of potential Voldemort 
fighters, Dumbledore is distancing into an infinite future Harry's 
inevitable showdown with Voldemort. It is another symptom of 
Dumbledore's great difficulty in accepting Harry's destiny (as he 
understands it).

> 
> Or he is lying directly in OOP. Harry may or may not be 'the one'. 
> Or the fact that the date is repeated twice means that there *are* 
> two people who have the power to vanquish Voldemort. So in PS/SS 
> Dumbledore may have known that there might be *someone else* who 
can 
> fight Voldemort, and eleven year old Harry really could go 
> unworriedly to sleep that night. 

He did want, very much, for Harry to go to sleep unworriedly. That's 
the "original sin" he confesses in OoP. My interpretation, however, 
is that he did not lie in either places. See above. 

> 
> And a final possibility (for the Dumbledore is the epitome of 
> goodness fans) is that Dumbledore is simply wrong in his 
> interpretation. He's made the best guess he can about the 
prophecy's 
> meaning. But it is only a guess. 

I would say, definitely. But not because I have a problem with the 
inconsistency you find between PS and OoP (since I don't see it as an 
inconsistency). Dumbledore is somehow wrong because the books simply 
cannot end with Harry either dead or a murderer. My belief is that 
this will be the crux of the whole series. I don't know how she will 
do it, but it's going to be a major, the major, point or message of 
HP. 

> 
> And in PS/SS he was just hoping like heck that the prophecy was 
> talking about a long, long time in the future, and maybe Harry was 
> going to beat Voldemort to death with his walking stick ;-)

You say it as a joke, but yes, that's what I think. He was hoping 
that the prophecy's fulfillment could be indefinitely postponed. You 
see, like you, I see Dumbledore as fallible, but *not* morally 
fallible. He makes mistakes because he is not omniscient, but his 
intentions are pure. 


Naama