Harry's Mistake: CRUCIO-> Bellatrix Lestrange

[msbeadsley]

No: HPFGUIDX 79478

"msbeadsley" <msbeadsley at y...> wrote: Bellatrix recovers very quickly 
from Harry's attempt to Crucio! her and then taunts him that he can't 
do it because he didn't hate 
enough....

"Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:  I accept that Harry did not have the 
intensity of hate and intent to effectively Crucio Bellatrix, but he 
also made another big mistake when he attempted the curse.  The 
Crucio is a 'sustained' curse, not an 'event' curse like most <edit>

--->"msbeadsley" _realtime_:  which goes back to what I said before:

"msbeadsley" <msbeadsley at y...> wrote: Harry has never cast this spell 
before; don't most major spells have to be learned and practiced in 
order to pack any punch?

--->"msbeadsley"_realtime_:  So, if Harry *had* practiced this, he 
would know about the whole " `sustained' curse" thing (which I think 
is probably bullseye on the mark, BTW).  So—how much of the spell's 
failure is a lack of hate and how much is lack of familiarity?

Maybe...thinking, thinking...the two are tied together:  maybe 
righteous (or any other kind of) anger isn't sufficient because it's 
ephemeral, chemical; generally, people don't stay angry and they get 
that way as a consequence of an event.  Hate is always with you, once 
you create that context (make that decision) where you store the 
things/people you hate.

"Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote: I do believe that Bellatrix statement 
is true, you do need a vicious cruel intent to cause vicious cruel 
pain; something that is not in Harry's nature. But I also think, even 
though the book doesn't directly explain this, that the curse failed 
because Harry did not maintain a sustained focused intent. 

--->"msbeadsley" _realtime_: So, Harry could have caused her pain as 
long as he had held focus; but it just might not have been sufficient 
to be disabling, anyway.

"msbeadsley" <msbeadsley at y...> wrote: If Harry does believe her, and 
if he is bothered by his inability to deal with her effectively, will 
he work very hard on learning how to hate effectively enough to hurt 
her/DE's in general next time?  While the power Harry has that is 
beyond the Dark Lord's ken is very likely *love*...

"James Redmont" <jamesredmont at h...> wrote: Very interesting, even 
probable.  However, I believe he'll abandon the hate thing (I hope, 
I'm sick of pissed-off!Harry...how terrible would hate!Harry be?) and 
come up with a new way to fight them.  The fact that he used Crucio! 
must be important.  It's not something she should lightly throw 
around, especially since she stressed that you get a lifetime 
sentence in Azkaban for trying it.  Was it to show us that he's not 
like the deatheaters?  or is it to show us he reached his breaking 
point?

--->"msbeadsley"_realtime_:  I, too, am (already) sick of pissed-off!
Harry.  While I heartily agree with his *right* to be just as he is, 
it's wearying for some of us (fictional and real world) who care 
about him.  I think Harry's decision to use an unforgivable will turn 
out to be an illustration of how anybody, even the best people, even 
Our Boy Harry, can sometimes made really really bad choices (there's 
that word again).  It may come into play later as he remembers, and 
considers how somebody, like Snape, might have started down a path 
feeling utterly justified, only to find out they'd made a badly wrong 
turn.

"Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> wrote:  That makes me wonder, could DD 
really have killed Voldemort at the MOM? The AK must work like 
Crucio, requiring a force of wanting the person dead.  Dumbledore 
tells LV, "merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit--", 
so the feeling wouldn't be behind an AK. 

--->"msbeadsley"_realtime_:   I think Dumbledore has something "worse 
than death" in mind for Voldemort; I suspect he has redemption, or at 
least repentance, in mind.  I imagine that being forced to face and 
regret the worst things you have done after a lifetime like 
Voldemort's would be an agony much deeper and greater than a mere 
(physically excruciating) CRUCIO!  I don't see Dumbledore as one to 
pass out punishment.  I also think that the key to the end is here.  
Voldemort will be trapped in a hell of his own making, somehow 
awakened to the flip side of all the harm he has done.  Sometimes I 
even wonder if Harry himself isn't Voldemort rewound in time to come 
around and do battle with himself from the defender's side.  It's the 
kind of final, devastating twist I could see JKR going for.

"msbeadsley"