Inside Dumbledores Head (was Re: Prophets without Honour)

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 79557

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, B Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
What I have is not suspicions of motives or 
> betrayal, but suspicions of his function, his place in the order of 
> things. What is he up to? What is the function he is fulfilling? 
How will this  govern his actions?
> 
> What bothers me - well, let me sift through the rummage bin hat 
passes 
> for my intellect and try to fit a few pieces together.
> 
> I am intrigued by where DD  fits in the cast list. He is (was) 
expected to be the mentor/guardian figure for Harry and the 
other 'youngsters' (With that I include the Sirius/James/Lupin 
generation as well). He is the well-worn, battered veteran; been 
there, seen that, got the cauldron. He's getting old; now's  the time 
to pass on the knowledge, skills, advice, ready to slide into a less 
demanding position. But he doesn't. He has an 'otherness' a 
detachment from events that doesn't sit well with his perceived role.

now me:

DD has been aware from the time of LV's attack on Lily and James that 
the LV story wasn't over.  My sense is that he feels responsible for 
seeing that LV is defeated.  At one point, someone-Hagrid, I think-
says that LV can never be finally killed, just put into abeyance for 
a time.  (I don't know if he means Tom Riddle in particular or evil 
wizards in general, though.) And I think DD knows this as well.  His 
self-assigned task is to eliminate the danger from this particular 
person.  
> 
Kneasy:

> There is no exposition of plans or strategy. Just the largely 
> ineffectual Order, from which he sends out members on assignments. 
He never explains why or how the results or intelligence gathered 
will be used. He has no understudy, no second in command privy to his 
plans. If anything happened to him, the whole thing would fall apart. 
But he is not a participant, as far as we can tell. He is a Black 
Hole;  everything goes in, nothing, especially not light, comes out. 

me again:

This is, imo, a function of the story being told from Harry's pov.  
He can't know what operations are going on at Grimmauld place if no 
one tells him.  I don't know why you think the Order is ineffectual-
they seem to come through when they're needed. Shacklebolt takes care 
of Marietta in the scene in DD's office.  The Order folks come to the 
DoM and save the kids from the DEs.  Even Mundungus manages to do 
something right when he listens in on the planning meeting at the 
Hog's Head.  I give the Order more credit than you do.  Remember that 
they're operating underground-if Fudge found out what they were up 
to, they'd all be in Azkaban.  Now that they can be open, they will 
be that much more effective.

Kneasy:
<snip> 
> The impression given is that he only intervenes when events are 
> deviating from some pre-ordained script. Crouch!Moody and the 
Portkey were not in that script; things were coming off the rails. It 
wasn't supposed to happen this way. then he finds out that Voldemort 
has used blood from Harry - the gleam! Ah! things are back on track 
again.
> 
> The Ministry fracas - Harry should have been protected by his 
> Occlumancy lessons; but because of the antipathy between he and 
Snape and teenage bloody-mindedness / curiosity, he didn't knuckle 
down and do it. Either one on it's own would probably not have 
prevented him  acquiring sufficient protection. But the juncture of 
the two, plus Snape's reaction was more powerful than DD imagined.
> He was vulnerable. So DD has to intervene to prevent things going 
> belly-up. (Cheer up, Laura! It wasn't really DD's fault after all.)
> 
> Does he *know* what is to happen? Little  seems to surprise him. 
Calm, collected and *ready*, even when Harry comes back from the 
graveyard to tell him V is back. No doubts, no confusion, no checking 
what assets he has available, no planning what to do next. He's 
ready. Is it his job to ensure things go to plan? What plan? Whose 
plan?

<snip> 
> But this is Fantasy. Step back a bit. Distance lends enchantment.
> Suppose  more  than the Potterverse  is involved. There is a 
> possibility, no more than just a chance, that longer timelines 
should 
> be considered, that the Harry Potter story is a link in a much 
longer 
> chain. At the start of every school year the Sorting Hat gives us a 
> reminder of beginnings, of a continuity of themes.
> This wider view could explain Dumbledore. He could be assigned a 
role 
> that is a recurring myth in many cultures. That of the advisor/hero 
who 
> appears at times of great need. Merlin, for example. To such, Harry 
and 
> his friends would be transient, small stuff in the greater scheme 
of 
> things. DD is reputed to be 150 years old. What can a person of 
this 
> age have in common with a 15  year old boy. Not much. Common 
purposes 
> at  best. If, as I mused yesterday, he has perhaps been re-born 
using 
> the Essence of PS, he could be much older. He knows people die. 
He's 
> seen it, time and again. The tragedy is if he has  to go on, time 
and 
> again. As he said to Voldemort, there are worse things than death.
<snip>
me:

I think you're reading too much into DD's behavior.  I can support 
the theory that DD's increasing fallibility is a manifestation of 
Harry's growing maturity.  But I don't see evidence of anything 
beyond that.  And I would be surprised if JKR was trying to enlarge 
her world beyond what she describes.  We'll just have to wait for the 
last 2 books to find out what the story is, though.  

I may not agree with everything you propose, but I sure do enjoy 
reading your posts.  Rock on, Kneasy!