Pensieves objectivity AND: Dumbledore's integrity

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 79739

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "kiricat2001" 
> <Zarleycat at a...> wrote:
>  I 
> > know, I know, Dumbledore had to stay away from Harry  so 
> Voldemort wouldn't find out when strolling through Harry's mind 
> that the good  guys had figured out about the connection 
> between Harry's mind and  Voldemort.  But, Dumbledore could 
> have had Remus or Moody or  McGonagall be the one to talk to 
> Harry alone to explain all of this,  and also explain why Snape 
> has to be the one to teach Harry.  <
> 
> Er, maybe I'm dense, but how does Harry getting the information 
> from Remus or Moody instead of Dumbledore make it any more 
> difficult for Voldemort to glean it from Harry's mind?  It's 
Harry's 
> mind that's unsafe, not Dumbledore's.

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  The original poster stated that 
he/she thought that, even if Harry had all the info DD gave him at 
the end of the book earlier in the story, that events would not have 
changed.  My point was that if Harry had the information, and if he 
had been given a better explanation of why Occlumency was important 
and why Snape was the best one to teach him, and if this explanation 
was given to him by someone he trusted, then things might have indeed 
turned out differently.  


> And this idea that Dumbledore had no understanding of what 
> Sirius was going through...where does that come from? Well, 
> that's what Harry thinks, "Dumbledore, who had plainly not 
> understood Sirius at all, how brave he was, how much he had 
> suffered..." 

>  Dumbledore did not  *make* Sirius stay at Grimmauld Place. 
> Sirius was  an adult, free to leave at any time. He wouldn't have 
> stayed if he hadn't understood the reasons that Dumbledore 
> wanted him to do it.  He does grumble about Dumbledore's 
> orders occasionally, but all soldiers do that.
> 
> Certainly Sirius suffered at Grimmauld Place, but is there any 
> reason to think he was suffering as much as Harry imagined? 
> There is this feeling on the list that Sirius ended up at the 
> Department of Mysteries because he was so stir-crazy with 
> being taunted and cooped up at Grimmauld Place that he 
> suicidally disregarded the danger he would face. That is illogical. 
> Sirius understood the danger well enough, otherwise he 
> wouldn't have wanted to rescue Harry in the first place. 

Ah, no, that's not my interpretation.  My reading is that JKR 
portrayed Sirius in a very much different manner in OoP than in GoF.  
She had the Greek chorus of Molly and Hermione telling us Sirius is 
rash, Sirius is reckless.  Molly makes this point several times.  
Hermione, who constantly told Harry in GoF to tell Sirius what's 
going on, write to Sirius, get Sirius' advice etc., now tells Harry 
she thinks Sirius is rash, gives bad advice, is so lonely he's not 
seeing things clearly.  

JKR consistently describes Sirius as being moody, volatile, surly, 
unkempt, angry, sensitive to the criticsms of others, prone to 
locking himself up with Buckbeak, restless at not being able to 
contribute to the cause.  I don't think she was trying to get us to 
believe his rush to the Ministry was a suicidal disregard of danger.  
I think she was making sure we got the point that he would instantly 
act in a rash, reckless manner and charge off to the MoM when Harry 
was in danger. That danger to Harry would be the trigger that would 
ignite the volatile, rash, reckless, person she painstakingly built 
up in OoP so that she could conveniently maneuver him into the 
position where she could kill him off.  

If Sirius had remained the thoughtful, considered, voice of reason he 
was in GoF, then he'd have stayed parked in 12 Grimmauld Place.  He 
would have snarked with Snape when Snape told him to stay there and 
fill Dumbldedore in on what the kids were doing on their way to the 
Minsitry.  But, he may very well have stayed put. That was never 
going to happen, as he had to be the one to die, so JKR made sure 
he'd act as he did. 

> Sirius is a troubled man, but it is a bit of a stretch to conclude 
he 
> must be a mental case because he got a bit drunk and 
> dishevelled on Christmas Eve, or because he found it hard to 
> endure Harry going back to Hogwarts without him. 

Well, maybe we'd have to dissect what you mean by mental case.  Or 
where Sirius is on the scale of troubled-depressed.  I definitely 
read the descriptions we've been given and the comments of other 
characters regarding Sirius as signs that he is not doing well 
emotionally. And, from there, one can say that Dumbledore may not 
have recognized what Sirius was going through, or did recognize it, 
but felt that it could not be helped.

Again, I find  differences in Sirius as he's portrayed in GoF and OoP 
to be quite startling. I can recall someone (I think it was Judy 
Serenity) posting a long time ago about how the Sirius of GoF had no 
bearing on the person portrayed in PoA, that traumatized PoA!Sirius 
could not suddenly be rational GoF!Sirius. The character seemed to be 
two different people to her. That's the feeling I get between GoF!
Sirius and OoP!Sirius. 

Marianne