Time, Repetition and the Uber-Dimension (was: Narrative Function

[corinthum]

No: HPFGUIDX 79924

Talisman wrote:
 
> >You cannot exist as a savior-self that is even one metabolic-
second 
> >older than you were when you would have perished without it.
> <snip>
> >Therefore, older Harry could not initially save younger Harry--
even 
> >though Time insists that he was "always" present in both
> >roles.

And Laurasia replied:

> Why is that? Are you saying:
> 
> Harry2 and Harry1 are both at the lake. Harry2 can't save Harry1 
> because Harry1 needs Harry 2 to survive?
> 
> That is: X and Y are simultaneous. 
> X can't save Y because Y needs X? 
> 
> That makes no sense. 
> 
> It should be: 
> X *must save* Y because X needs Y.
> And this is where the problems start. 
> 
> Am I right in assuming that what you really are having an issue 
with 
> is the idea that Harry *must* save his former self? It's not that 
you 
> disagree with the fact that Harry and Harry-plus-3-hours are 
standing 
> right next to each other, it is just that that now means that Harry 
> had no choice in going back in time? 

First off, I'm jumping into the middle of this without having read 
some of the recent time-travel posts, so if I'm repeating, just 
ignore me.

Talisman is saying (if I understand her correctly), and I agree, that 
the Harry-*must*-save-himself scenario is implausible.  Time can't 
motivate a person; if Harry had wanted to change something while time-
traveling, he could.  He did.  But time doesn't record it that way.

In this case, Harry1 and Harry2 exist simultaneously.  But Harry2 can 
only exist in this time frame if Harry1 successfully made it to the 
time-travel point once before.  Therefore, Harry1 must have escaped 
the Dementors without the help of Harry2 the first time around.  
However, the second time, Harry2 steps in takes action.

Who knows what was going through Harry1's and Harry2's heads during 
the original course of events.  Hypthetically, let's say Harry1 
originally just barely managed to fend off the Dementors for a while 
until help came (Snape? It's not important though).  Then Sirius was 
arrested, Harry1 and Hermione1 went to the hospital wing, etc. 
(everything proceeding as in the final recording, for sanity's 
sake).  In order to save Sirius, Harry1 and Hermione1 go back in 
time, becoming Harry2 and Hermione2.  While there, Harry2 sees Harry1 
trying to fend off the Dementors, gets worried that maybe things will 
happen differently this time,  and decides just to be safe to cast a 
Patronus to save himself.  As soon as this happens, Harry1's memories 
change to that which is recorded in the book.  Because Harry2 is in 
reality Harry1 plus three hours, his memories also change.  The 
result: the one and only Harry has only one memory, one which 
includes both present him and future him.  He interprets his actions 
as being directly motivated by his memories, when in reality the 
opposite is true.  The must-go-back-in-time situation presents itself 
only after the time travel has already ocurred.

Did that make any sense?  

-Corinth