Seamus and the Weasleys

[jeffl1965]

No: HPFGUIDX 79987

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Kirstini" <kirst_inn at y...> 
wrote:
> Jeff:
> >>Yeah, I can see Party-Animal!Seamus fairly easily. :) In a way, I 
> think the way that JRK wrote him, is almost insulting with her 
having 
> him wanting to make rum at age 11. To me, that implies that he's 
> already a drinker, which might be true, but not something that she 
> should point out early on as part of his make-up.>>
> 
> Kirstini: UH? I wanted to drink at 11. I actually did drink 
> (socially) at fourteen, as many kids at my school did (relaxed 
> drinking laws over here mean that by the time kids are ready to 
start 
> drinking leagally they're generally a lot more sensible about it).I 
> love all the litte bits in OoP: "hey, I bet he'd sell us 
Firewhiskey" 
> and Seamus/Dean trying to buy booze for a post-exam party, becuase 
> they exhibit this wonderful, non-judgemental mentality which I 
really 
> respect the atuhor for. 
> I'm vaguely concerned about your idea of "insulting", as I want to 
> point out something else:
>

   Jeff: 

     Well, I don't know about all the general UK/Continental Laws, so 
didn't know what the drinking age is there. I know in many former 
Soviet Block contries kids drink vodka almost as soon as they're off 
the teat. I'd tried a bit of booze, and was allowed at 13 to have a 
small glass of wine during holidays, but I never wanted to do that 
much, and still don't. 
   Well, I'm not trying to make anybody take the piss, I was just 
concerned about how she presents certain people. I'm sure if JKR 
wrote Cho Chang with halting English, that many people would be 
insulted by it. I can hope that the actress they choose isn't asked 
to speak that way. :)




  
> Jeff:
> >>The same can be said about how she presents the Weasley family. 
> They're poor, red-haired, and have a large family. Sounds like a 
stab 
> at the Irish to me.>> 
> 
> Kirstini:
> Sounds like you implanting your own horrifically crude stereotyping 
> upon an interpretation to me. Firstly, how a stab? At which point 
in 
> the narrative are the Weasleys portrayed as anything other than a 
> highly interesting, enjoyable experience for Harry, experiencing a 
> world other to his own? Secondly: at the point at which she created 
> Ron and the Weasleys, JKR herself was struggling to feed her own 
> daughter, and had red hair (obviously, she acceeded to food and 
> bleach as her fortunes took an upturn).
> 

    Perhaps so, but it's just how she made Draco insult Ron by 
mentioning his being poor, red-haired and freckled and having more 
kids than they can afford. Sounds much like what I've read/seen many 
English say about some Irish folk. Sod'em I say. Erin Go Braugh! :) 
So she just seems, imho, to be making a bit of a mockery of them a 
bit. Even some other fans seem to think that judging from how they 
write the Weasley family in their ficcies. Personally, I love the 
Weasleys. Ron's my fave, but I think the rest are just as great. I do 
find it funny that Jo loves the Weasleys and yet she did color her 
hair. It's her right, but just funny.

 
> The Sergeant Majorette says:
> >>Maybe they're not meant to be Irish, but Scots, and as disdainful 
> of wastrels like those johnny-come-lately Norman Malfoys as the 
> Malfoys are of them.>> 
> 
> Kirstini again (oar well and truly stuck): As the only "out" Scot 
on 
> the list <awaits deafening response> I'd like to muss everything up 
> again. I *love* the Seagent Majorette's reading. I'd love it to be 
> true. But the Weasleys are English. We have an Irish person 
(Seamus) 
> who conforms to a few nice wee stereotypes for us there, ah, so he 
> does now. Beware of the banshee, begorrah, begorrah(1)! We have 
> McGonagall and her tartan biscuit tin (and don't forget "fair 
> Ravenclaw from glen"). Old Godric is going to turn out Welsh. All 
> four countries covered. Everyone else conforms to a particular 
middle-
> Englishness that we see preserved in their accent (Hagrid and Stan 
> Shunpike are a bit thicker than the rest, so they get to keep those 
> regional accents in all those variously patronising shades of 
> hyphenation). We also have token black, South-Asian and North-Asian 
> pupils (all five of them, six, if we add on Kingsley Shacklebolt) 
> representing, rather smugly, each non-white skintone. 
> 
 
   Jeff:
   I agree. I'm not saying that she's picking *only* on the Irish, 
its just that I got a bit irked that she seems to be making 2 strikes 
against the Irish. If I see some jokes about the Welsh and their 
sheep or have a Welsh character wearing his wellies or maybe 
something about Paddington Bear, I'd feel better.
   As for accents, well, the Weasley kids say "oy" a lot, and with 
Ron's constant swearing, I can almost picture him with a working 
class cockney accent, which the actor playing him *almost* has.


> English people can be ginger. JKR is herself (she may live in 
> Edinburgh now, but I have a feeling she still said something 
> like "the Scotch" recently, leaving us all sniffing about for the 
> Jack Daniels.) The Weasleys are at least second generation English, 
> because they are comfortable with the word "mate", enough so to 
> suggest that its use in their dialogue doesn't sound like them 
> auditioning for a Guy Ritchie film (although I dread to hear the 
> audio aspect of the Phelps twins' "visual interpretation"  - ahem - 
> of OoP). They live in the world's most English sounding place other 
> than Little Whinging. Also, they are all named Arthurian-ly (has 
this 
> ever been a word?). Scottish parents going for a theme would more 
> likely go for Gaelic names. Not any sort of social commentry, just 
> instinct.
> 
  Jeff:

   Oh, I agree that having ginger hair doesn't make a person full-
blood paddy, but people seem to expect it, don't they? I know I seem 
to run into that misconception myself, being redhaired and of Irish 
blood as well. :)
   I agree the Weasley family could be a few generations removed from 
Ireland. Maybe their original family name is O' Weasel? :) They would 
have more common Irish names, but living in England, they might want 
to sound more English. 



> Kirstini
> 1) I am well aware that Seamus has never said "begorrah, begorrah". 
I 
> was merely illustrating a point, and to type "Ah, feck off ya 
Banshee 
> hoor, there's a bomb under your ruin" would probably have caused 
much 
> alarm on list from the folk who quite rightly can't be too sure 
about 
> online sarcasm.

  Jeff:

     Yeah, it's true he's not talked about St. Paddy's day or the 
wearin' o' the green, or talked about mass or pipebombs. But only 
because Harry ain't seen him do that yet. ;) It is sad that being 
cheeky doesn't always work online, but its just one of those things. 
If this list ever goes live video chat or voice chat, then it would 
be much easier. :)


  Jeff