Prank AND the subversive point of view

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 80198

> Laura:
> 
> > I have to ask-which is worse, a berk or a pillock? My knowledge 
of 
> > contemporary British slang isn't what it should be, obviously. 
> 
> [Grin]. They're about the same: berk and pillock both mean a stupid 
> person. But I'd rather be a berk than a pillock – `berk' is often 
> said as `a bit of a berk', whereas `pillock' is often said as `a 
> complete pillock'. Both are fairly mild, btw, and often quite 
> affectionate.
> 

Laura:

Okay, one more question about slang.  Where does "git" fit in with 
the above?

>  Pip!Squeak
> But for those who don't know me: I'm one of the subversives on the 
> list. Do not expect a `face value reading' from a subversive 
> theorist. Subversives specialise in taking a much loved, admired 
> character and explaining why they are Ever So Evil, Ever So 
> Manipulative, or in this case, Ever Such A Pillock. 
> 
> We don't do it with the deliberate intention of starting fights ;-
)  
> It's just that we have a knack for seeing the alternative view. 
> Sometimes we're even right [grin]. 
> 
> A 'subversive' post is a call for lively discussion. It is not a 
> Declaration of Flame War.
> 
> Subversive theorists have started some of the best discussions on 
> the list. Challenging the face value interpretation of canon is 
> perfectly OK on this list. Just as it is perfectly OK for posters 
to 
> respond by defending the face value interpretation.
> 
> But both challenge and response should try to attack theorIES, and 
> not the theorISTS.
> 
> Preferably by using lots of canon ;-)
> 
> Donna wrote:
> 
<snip> Why DID Snape go through the tunnel that night?
> >>
> Pip!Squeak again:

> I suspect that it may have something to do with the fact that Lupin 
> was with a staff member when he was taken to the tunnel. Lupin said 
> that Snape `had seen me crossing the grounds with Madame Pomfrey' 
> [PoA, Ch. 18, p.261 UK paperback]. So whatever was in that tunnel, 
> it was staff approved. Just out of bounds. 
> 
> Plus, I doubt Sirius told him in a friendly, helpful manner. 
> 
> It's speculation. But Snape continually snipes at Sirius in OOP, 
for 
> staying safely at home, leading to the final comment of `why yes, I 
> suppose I am' when Sirius finally says `Are you calling me a 
> coward?' This suggests that quite possibly Sirius previously used a 
> taunt of `coward' on him.
> 
> And that taunt makes 16 year old boys do incredibly stupid things.
> 
> Also, a public taunt of `coward' would mean that Snape would not 
> expect a snipe hunt. Half the school would be laughing at him if he 
> *didn't* go in. Sirius's version of events would be: Snivellus 
> sticks to the rules because he's too scared to break them. He's 
> trying to get us expelled because he wishes he were as brave as we 
> are – we don't care about rules.
> 

Laura:

But what makes you think anyone else in the school knew about the 
Prank?  If Sirius told anyone of the plan beforehand, he would have 
given away Remus's secret, and we have no evidence he did so.  
Indeed, we have evidence by implication that he *didn't* do so-Remus 
didn't have to leave the school as a student.  
And as many people have pointed out, all of the parties concerned 
(except possibly Snape) would have had good reason not to spread the 
story around afterwards.  Besides, I bet a whole lot of the school 
would have sympathized with Snape if they'd heard what 
happened.  "James and Sirius set up Snape to go after a werewolf?  
What are they, crazy?"

Pip!Squeak:
<snip>> I'm not sure whether Sirius underestimated Lupin's 
dangerousness, or 
> underestimated Snape's courage. Either would explain why Sirius 
> would see it as a `Prank' style joke, and why Snape (with a clearer 
> idea of the dangerousness of werewolves and a better knowledge of 
> his own courage) would see it as a murder attempt. 
> 
> Sirius either believed that his friend Lupin wouldn't *really* hurt 
> anyone, or that his victim Snivellus wouldn't *really* go down the 
> scary tunnel.
> 
> But that's another of Sirius's patterns. Lupin, Snape, Peter, 
> Bellatrix.
> 
> He underestimated what people are capable of.

Laura:

It's a good assumption that Sirius did underestimate werewolf!Remus's 
dangerousness, because that creature (who wasn't Remus, imo) was 
never a threat to Padfoot and Company.  However, whether you can call 
Snape's behavior in going into the tunnel courageous is another 
question.  That description assumes that Snape knew something 
dangerous was waiting for him, and we don't know that to be the 
case.  Canon doesn't take a position on what Snape knew the night of 
the prank.  

If, however, you make the not unreasonable assumption that SS did in 
fact have a very educated guess about what would be waiting in the 
Shack, then his actions seem just downright stupid to me, not 
courageous.  And if you add to that the fact that SS saw Remus going 
into the Shack with a staff member (which means that this was 
officially permitted activity), then you can add nosiness to the 
description.  If SS had deduced that Remus had a little lycanthropy 
problem, then he had to know also that (1) the person who transforms 
has no control over the process and (2) the werewolf is a mortal 
threat to any human it encounters.  

Long live subversives, and their posts!  They're what make this list 
so much fun.  Rock on, Pip!


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