The Hogwarts librarian

[Grey Wolf]

No: HPFGUIDX 80680

Sue B wrote:
 "And even asked... for help" suggests, to me at least, that they 
> normally don't, probably because she is "irritable and vulture-like" 
> and tends to glare at kids who actually use her "precious books" - 
> can't recall which book that was in, but it was either GoF or OoP.

I seem to recall that you voted for the librarian from UU (Unseen 
University) as a substitute (I assume a substitue you would like). 
However, he himself has some very similar thoughts in the matter - he 
also dislikes students that come and read and disturb his precious 
books and so on (it is funny when Terry Pratchett describes it, 
though).

Some librarians are like that. When you are in charge of books 500 
years old, you get a little paranoic about who reads them: are they 
treating them correctly? Aren't they passing pages a little too fast? 
What if they forget just how old that book is and rip a page?

Madam Pince is in charge of a library that has existed undisturbed for 
around 1000 years. There are surely books from the founders times, 
which is enough to make one cranky and fearful of bunches of 11 
year-olds running around the place with dirty fingers and no knowledge 
of the respect or cautiousness these books require. You can try and 
explain a twelve year old that some of those books *are* delicate and 
need to be treated with extreme caution, if you want. Odds are high 
most of them will either ignore you or forget almost inmediately, 
though. So maybe Pince goes for quantity: keeps reminding them to be 
careful. In Harry's eyes, however, that turns her into the "dragon" 
cliche (which I had never heard of, by the way), but gets results - 
Harry is very careful with the books, most of the time, and there are 
no records of any destruction save the page ripped by Hermione.

> It's not so much a case of whether or not she helps on request, but 
> the  negative - and very cliched - "library dragon" portayal. 
> Compare/contrast this with the warm (perhaps equally cliched, but at 
> least positive) portrayal of the school nurse. 

Here you mention two cliches: librarian and nurse. As someone mentioned 
in the thread, those two characters aren't so much cliched as 
unidimentional, since they're very secondary to the books. But going 
back to the subject of cliches, I have to point out that, more often 
than not, I've seen the nurse portrayed as an ugly woman that knows no 
medicine and likes to see her patients suffer. I had one just like her 
at school - and so did (in a fashion) Roald Dahl (check "boy"). As I 
mentioned above, however, I have not encountered either cliche before. 
I can see how both fit the character though, and I can give you 
explanaitions for both, without having to feel all offended because 
they have personalities, even if undeveloped ones.

Pince, as I said, is perfectly reasonable for someone keeping a library 
with books older than any of the people in the castle. The nurse, on 
the other hand, is a good nurse that treats patients in no-nonsense 
sort of way, curt and efficient, that speaks of much practice (practice 
she gets easily at Hogwarts, were incidents are common). Neither is 
portrayed in the caricatur-esque manner of cliches, though - Harry does 
not go out of his way to see Pince as a dragon, and not asking for her 
help is perfectly in character for him and his cronic misstrust of 
adults, or even people in general (notice Crouch!Moody's comment of 
Harry not asking whole Gryffindor for help with the tasks).

> What is it with these children's writers, anyway?

Now who's using cliches? JKR writes books that get put in the 
"Children's book" New York Times bestseller list (created because she 
hogged the regular one), and she's a "children's writter"? There have 
been big discussion in this list about the books being for children or 
not. The fact that we are all adults here should clue you that this 
isn't a modern version of "run, Spot, run". So this is, in essence, the 
wrong question to ask. Why did JKR decide to picture Pince like this?

I think that the answer to that question is: because it makes sense. It 
is a believable persona in believable situations and circunstances. 
Yes, a nice, friendly librarian might fit too, but not everyone is 
sunny-faced. The fact that there are people Harry doesn't like in the 
school adds realism to the books. If it hadn't been the librarian, but 
the nurse, we'd now have a thread of angry nurses complaining they are 
not like that. Or caretakers. Or Headmasters (I have encountered a lot 
of "dragon headmasters", unlike the other cliches - mainly because all 
children fear "going to the headmaster", which in turn is permeated 
into books).

> I know there have been a few library 
> dragon types in the past, before it became a proper profession with 
> qualifications and training in working with library users

This is another reason for such a librarian at Hogwarts, in fact. There 
are no "professions" in the WW, since there are no Universities. How 
Pince managed to be the librarian was probably by being assigned as a 
helper to the precious one and learning from him or her everything she 
needed. In the muggle world, you say that could produce dragons (I 
wouldn't know, but I'll take your word) and that "good" librarians are 
the result of "proper profession with qualifications and training". 
Since there is no such thing, it is logical then that Pince would be 
like she is. Not to mention that even if there had been a place to 
properly learn, she's probably old enough to come from a culture were 
being an ogre librarian was much prefered.

> Most of us 
> love kids and adore teaching them to be skilled researchers and 
> saying, "Have I got a book for you!" and looking through library 
> displays, thinking, "Hey, such-and-such a student will LOVE this 
> one!"

Again, another good point: most of you like teaching and children. 
There are bad apples. Pince could be one - as I say, if everyone was 
friendly and happy at Hogwarts castle, it wouldn't only be unreal and 
unbelievable, but sickeningly sweet too. One thing HP has over many 
other similar (and not so similar) books is that, for all its fantasy 
and magic, it feels real. So the quota of bad-homoured people gave the 
title to the librarian, more's the pity. But as I said above, it had to 
be *someone* - for equilibrium's sake, if nothing else.

> It's time writers caught up with the facts, that's all I mean.

Facts like what? That people born in the twenties would be dragon-like, 
as you have said? Wizards live long, so Pince could be old enough to be 
the age of that horrible librarian that you once substituted. That all 
librarian aren't like you? That keepers of priceless books tend to 
hoard them and protect them from careless readers?

And again, you are throwing a cliche yourself with "writers". I have 
read many authors, and I've never come across the dragon librarian 
cliche, except in mild forms like the UU librarian and madam Pince (and 
in my eyes, they hardly count).

Yes, JKR could've designed Pince other ways. An incompetent slob 
(always drinking and belching and drunk). A perfect indexer that could 
find anything in minutes. A nice old lady that would bring you cookies 
while you read (but incompetent to find anything herself due to failing 
sight). There are many personas that could fit. JKR chose one that fits 
- that doesn't make her a children writter, or a cliche writter. Just 
one that puts characters in settings, and is not afraid of reminding 
readers that not everybody is cheerful and a people person.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf