A perspective on OOP

[fawkes970]

No: HPFGUIDX 80764

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "linlou43" <linlou43 at y...> 
wrote:
>  Wanda wrote:
>  
> <Having fun?  Are WE having fun anymore?  Speaking for myself, I 
> have to 
>  say no.  For me, the fun died on June 21, when OotP was 
released.  
> And so 
>  much of the discussion of that book, and speculation of what it 
> will lead 
>  to, make me think that very few readers are having fun anymore. >
> 
>   
> linlou:
> 
>   I'm really sorry, Wanda, that the series has lost its' magic for 
> you. Isn't it amazing that we can feel that level of betrayal on 
> behalf of fictional characters? I sympathize with you as I have 
felt 
> that betrayal from several movies and television shows in the past.
( 
> I have a strong tendancy to become WAY too attached to fictional 
> characters no matter what the medium.) However, I am in camp with 
> those that love OOP, which is simply a difference of opinion- no 
> more, no less. Read on for why I feel this way.
> 
>  
>  Yoda :
>  
> < I loved OOP. I think that the dark tone was very appropriate. 
When 
> I was trying to contemplate what might happen after reading GOF, I 
> remember thinking that the next  book would be darker and Harry 
> would  probably be changed significantly by the the events in GOF, 
> and I hoped  that JKR would be up to the task of writing it that 
> way. I'm in the same mind as people who feel that the first two 
> books are in no way on the same level with the later books.  To be 
> fair they are better than a lot of other books, but it's kind of 
> like re-reading Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, Interview with the 
> Vampire is the book you have to get through to get to the good 
> stuff. >
> 
> linlou:
> 
>  I agree that the tone of OOP was appropriate, even, dare I say, 
> expected (by me, myself and I anyway). I never even thought about 
> whether JKR would be up to the task though. It simply never 
occured 
> to me to question it. I don't, however, feel that the early books 
of 
> the series are inferior to the latter, but that they are, instead, 
> rather a different kind of book that do the job they were meant to 
> do- entertain the audience more than ably, introduce the world and 
> its' characters and create the suspension of disbelief that is 
> necessary to the reader at the same time (not an easy feat in and 
of 
> itself me-thinks). 
> 
> 
>  msbeadsley wrote:
>  
> < IMO, a better written book would have communicated every bit of 
> what Harry 
>  was going through and left it Harry's without making it mine 
(which 
> I'd 
>  have resisted going in except that the first four books built up 
> such a 
>  great level of trust in me that I failed to mount defenses).>
> 
> 
>   And Yoda replied:
> 
>  < I think that the best books are the ones that suck you in and 
> cause you to live the events along with the characters. Harry 
went  
> through a very tramatic experience and then came back to find that 
> the  general public did not believe him.  He has had his sense of 
> security  taken from him after being spirited away from Hogwarts 
and 
> betrayed by  someone he trusted (fake Moody).  So it makes sense 
> that if we are to appreciate what he is going through our sense of 
> security will be removed too.>
> 
> 
> And then in a later post msbeadsly added:
> 
> <All in all, I feel somewhat as if OoP was a mostly unpleasant, 
> large 
>  expository *lump* which had good bits, mostly concerning 
> characters, 
>  labeled "insert comic relief here" or "insert ray of hope there.">
>  
> 
> linlou:
> 
> As I said above, I sympathize with the disappointment in OOP as I 
> have some experiance with the sentiment. Msbeadsle, if I am 
reading 
> your post correctly, in addition to not liking the tone of the 
book, 
> you found the flow of it disjointed? It sounds like you found the 
> insertions of "comic relief" and "rays of hope" to seem 
artificially 
> placed. I respect that, but am afraid we will have to agree to 
> disagree on this aspect of OOP.  I thought the book flowed well. 
In 
> fact, my first read took me nine hours. (straight through except 
for 
> the ride home and bathroom breaks-first four chapters in a 
> restaurant next to the bookstore) I tried to go to bed but I 
> couldn't put it down.
> 
> I said above that the first books in the series were different 
> kinds of books than the latter installments that we have so far. I 
> promised to explain that statement so here we go. 
> 
> First of all, I have read all the arguments in the last couple of 
> days both from those who liked OOP and those who didn't. In some 
of 
> the posts, the point was made that as Harry developed more and 
> understood the world around him in a darker light, so must the 
> temper of the books change in order to grow with him. In short, it 
> would be unrealistic for the books to be all moonlight and roses. 
I 
> understand that was not even what the disappointed readers were 
> looking for per se but it seems that many felt the change to swift 
> and sudden. IMO, it was neither swift nor sudden, but progressed 
> naturally beginning all the way back with Prof. McGonagall 
refusing 
> to listen about the stone being in danger in SS/PS. It is 
> intermitant during the next two books but the stage is set for the 
> disillusionment that really starts to take hold in the hospital 
> scene at the end of POA. The reason that, (agian IMO) the shift in 
> OOP seemed so sudden is because that theme was really not explored 
> in GOF, so when it resurfaced in OOP as an overriding concern for 
> Harry and co. the anger spawned by it seemed to come out of 
nowhere 
> when in fact it had been simmering on Harry's back burner since 
the 
> end of his first year.
> 
> But I'm getting off track. I was talking about the books being 
> different types wasn't I? Sorry about that.
> 
> I'm a major book worm. In my school days, I was the kind of kid 
> who's mother had to yell at her to put the book down and do her 
> algebra homework. When my high school english teacher assigned the 
> first chapter of a book we were going to analyze, I usually had 
the 
> entire thing read by the next morning. My husband once picked on 
me 
> because I was totally absorbed in the VCR instructions when I 
> already knew how to work the thing. If it's written down, I'll 
read 
> it. However, reading and enjoying can two different things 
> (admitedly with me that is rarely the case) and what I enjoy 
reading 
> depends on what I need from the book at the time. If I am looking 
> for a romp to amuse me I will read a certain type of book. If I am 
> looking for a trap door through the floor of reality I read 
another 
> type. The beginning books of the Harry Potter series are 
variations, 
> depending on the chapter, of fulfillment of these two possible 
needs 
> of an audience. As such, they seem to be aimed at a certain 
target. 
> I do have, however, a third category. This is the category that 
GOF 
> begins to fall into and OOP is entirely in- reading to gain 
insight 
> into ourselves and the world around us. I agree with Yoda in that 
I 
> don't want to understand what Harry is feeling. I want more 
> than that. I want to feel it right along with him. When I am able 
to 
> do that, I can explore my own reactions and hopefully understand 
> myself and my worldview better as a result.
> 
> Basically, I guess my point is an old one. We bring our own 
> experiences and needs to every book we read. That's the beauty of  
> reading. In movies and television the perspective is chosen for us.
> With a book, the story is written as it is, but the reader guides 
> the experience. Personally, I seem to have an innate talent to 
> adjust my needs as a reader to the type of book I'm reading, and 
> that's my good fortune. To those who need the book to fit their 
> need, I understand the disillusionment caused by OOP. I hope my 
> thoughts might help you see the book in a new light should you 
ever 
> decide to give it another try.
> 
>  Oh yes, I almost forgot to add one thing. Yes I AM still having 
fun.
> 
> -linlou


Fawkes:
I beleive that the first two books were more care-free and they were 
a lot less mature. However, once the third book came out and it 
showed how people have such complexities in their lives it brought 
out a more serious side to the HP saga.
Harry and Hermoine have both grown since the third book
(appropriately because they were the two who traveled back in time 
together and since then have grown a very close friendship). The 
fifth book shows a theme of darkness and betrayl because in OOTP 
such characters who are normally allies have been turned against 
eachother through the events of POA and GoF. 
Harry Hermoine Ron Sirius and others have the idea of Voldemort 
being back and the Death Eaters still amongst them. 
Meanwhile Cornelius and the MoM are all denying the return of 
Voldemort along with Daily Prophet staff.
Then there is Voldemort and his Death Eaters. Gathering up their 
army of Dementors and Giants, and releasing former Death Eaters from 
Azkaban show how this dark war has not ended, but that there was 
only a brief period in between two major battles of the war(i 
beleive firenze also made a comment about this in OOTP). 
The OOTP is just a more mature, involved book then the earlier book
(1+2), which doesnt make it less fun, just different.