DD as spiritual leader? (was:Canon for BADD ANGST)

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 81249

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jwcpgh" <jwcpgh at y...> wrote:
> <snips>
> > Sandy:
> > Just who is Dumbledore? And what religion are most wizards? It's 
> > pretty obvious they're not pagans; I'm pagan, and they're not...I 
> > think. So who is the supreme spiritual authority in the WW? 
Fudge? 
> > No, it's Dumbledore. He knows more about everything than anybody. 
I 
> > have to conclude that if this is the only hope--if the cataclysm, 
> the 
> > Phoenix pyre is what's left to weigh against NO hope--then yes, 
the 
> > end justifies the means. (And if someone not God has to make the 
> > decision, then is that person even more damned than Voldemort? 
Even 
> > if he does it out of love? Dumbledore saves the world by 
destroying 
> > it and is stuck for eternity in Azkaban-beyond-the-veil. (Bangy 
> > enough for you bangers?))
> > 
> >snip> 
>  I think the reason we all (me, too) don't want to go with 
> manipulating, lying, megalomaniac Dumbledore is that we want, we 
> *need* him to be "better" than that. We need him to save the world 
> and retain his nobility even if he loses his life. Even if he has 
to 
> sacrifice Harry, or let Harry sacrifice himself. Even without a God 
> in the WW, we want to believe that Dumbledore would leave the 
flood, 
> the purge, to Him. <snip>
> 
> Laura:
> 
> Wow, Sandy.  The admin elves may have to start a theology subgroup!
> *smiles*
> 
> JKR has carefully avoided any reference to spirituality, spiritual 
> practice or organized religion of any brand, at least in my reading 
> of the HP books.  Christmas and Easter are entirely secular 
> holidays.  There is no moment of prayer, no chapel, no holy book.  
So 
> I think it's assuming too much to suggest that DD is the spiritual 
> head of the WW.  What we know about him is that he is deeply and 
> widely respected, that he has fought dark lords and dark magic all 
> his life (okay, at least since 1945) and that he believes that non-
> magical creatures and magical non-humans deserve as much respect as 
> wizards and witches.  But there's no evidence that DD has any 
> interest in, or control of, ritual spiritual practices in the WW, 
if 
> any exist, or that the WW looks to him for guidance on all moral 
> issues.  

<snipped>

Geoff:
Bear in mind that other writers who were Christians - I am thinking 
of JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis - do not have an overt Christian faith 
shown in their books, yet where they are coming from is visible if 
you look carefully. JRRT sets his in a culture in the distant past - 
way pre-Christian - but the underlying themes are there to be 
recognised. It is probably a little more overt in "The Silmarillion" 
where there is talk of Eru (The One) and the creation of the world 
and the fall from grace of Morgoth. CS Lewis again speaks of 
the "Great Emperor over Sea" and the story of Aslan is very much an 
allegory of Christ's coming to earth as God taking on human form.

There are many quotes from the books which echo Christian teaching - 
I shan't bore you by listing them now; it has been done frequently 
and which I often use working with young people in my own BAptist 
background.

I have said in previous posts that I see Harry as a representative of 
everyman on his journey - not a Christ-like figure but one seeking 
the true God. In relation to the Dumbledore/Harry relationship, I am 
reminded of some of the teacher/student pairings which existed with 
the disciples in the early church and are mentioned in the New 
Testament. In particular Paul/Timothy and Peter/Mark come to mind. 
Mark, in his gospel, is certainly believed to be using Peter's 
memories and experiences to write his version.