DD as spiritual leader? (was:Canon for BADD ANGST)

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 81264

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jwcpgh" <jwcpgh at y...> wrote:
> Laura:
> > > I think it's assuming too much to suggest that DD is the 
> spiritual head of the WW...there's no evidence that DD has any 
> > > interest in, or control of, ritual spiritual practices in the 
WW, 
> > if  any exist, or that the WW looks to him for guidance on all 
> moral issues.  
> > 
> > <snipped>
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > Bear in mind that other writers who were Christians - I am 
thinking 
> > of JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis - do not have an overt Christian 
faith 
> > shown in their books, yet where they are coming from is visible 
if 
> > you look carefully. <snip> I have said in previous posts that I 
see 
> Harry as a representative of 
> > everyman on his journey - not a Christ-like figure but one 
seeking 
> > the true God. In relation to the Dumbledore/Harry relationship, I 
> am 
> > reminded of some of the teacher/student pairings which existed 
with 
> > the disciples in the early church and are mentioned in the New 
> > Testament. In particular Paul/Timothy and Peter/Mark come to 
mind. 
> > Mark, in his gospel, is certainly believed to be using Peter's 
> > memories and experiences to write his version.
> 
> Laura again:
> 
> But the writer's philoophical stance may not be overtly reflected 
in 
> every action in the book.  Sure, if you read Lewis or Tolkien, 
their 
> beliefs are clear, and for all I know it's the same with JKR (not 
> being well versed in Christian theology, I'm happy to defer to 
those 
> with more expertise).  But do you think that DD is supposed to be 
> divine?  Or something more than a mere human?  



Geoff:
You missed my point. I said that I saw Dumbledore/Harry in an 
analagous position to pairing in the NT between the disciples where a 
younger one was being mentored by an older one.


Laura:
> What I was trying to get at is that JKR seems to be very 
consciously 
> avoiding any overt spiritual framework in the Potterverse.  



Geoff:
Also a point I made re Tolkien/Lewis. Lewis veers towards being overt 
but Tolkien's agenda is there for those who look for it but can 
otherwise be overlooked.


Laura:
> When Sandy suggested that DD is the spiritual leader of the WW, the 
> question I had is, how do we know?  What do people do or say to 
> indicate that he has that kind of position?  Power he certainly 
has, 
> but I don't see it as the sort of power a spiritual leader would 
> have. There doesn't seem to be any kind of coherent ethical system 
in 
> the WW-or am I missing it?  
> I'm not talking about what we can infer, 
> because that's debatable.  I'm talking about any reference to an 
> accepted code of moral thought and behavior-that's what seems to be 
> missing.  


Geoff:
How about the difference between Dark Magic and "Light" magic for 
want of a better term)? It would seem that the behaviour of "moral" 
people in the Wizarding World is to avoid the path of Dark Magic. 
Look at the sharp intakes of breath which occur when Voldemort's name 
is mentioned.... In Christian terms, this is the avoidance of sinful 
behaviour, ie behaviour which flouts the two great commandments. I do 
not find this an easy path to tread, even after 40 years as a 
Christian but it is one which I seek to follow. It doesn't 
necessarily make me a spiritual leader though.