[HPforGrownups] Re:Dumbledore's Philosophy (WAS: MAGIC DISHWASHER: Spying Game Philosophy

[Iggy McSnurd]

No: HPFGUIDX 81679


From: Salit

> "Iggy McSnurd" wrote:
> > In GoF, AD has a look of triumph in his eye and said that one
> hurdle was
> > overcome.
>
> Not exactly. He said that "Voldemort has overcome that particular
> hurdle" (paraphrased - don't have the book in front of me).
> The "hurdle" was the protection that Harry's mother left on him.
> He did not sound happy about that part.

Oops.  Looking back (finally found my copy of the book) it appears I did
make a goof there.

(Still don't understand, then, where the look of triumph in AD's eye was
from ...)

>
> > Therefore, the love Harry's mother felt for him now also
> > courses through LV...
>
> Yes, to a point. She never felt love towards Voldemort. I find it
> hard to believe that the protection will work the same way there.

But the love itself courses through Harry... It's a part of him through his
entire being.  You wouldn't be able to separate that from the blood in a
ritual like that, simply by removing it from his body.  That's my opinion,
anyhow.

And I'm not saying that the love would protect LV, I'm simply stating that
the love is there since it came with the part of Harry that he took.

>
> > I think that something Harry does in their final confrontation
> will "unlock"
> > that dormant love that lies in LV's body, and it will purge Tom
> Riddle of
> > the evil and hatred within himself that forms the Dark Lord.
>
> This would be too sappy of an ending to my mind. I think that
> Voldemort/Tom Riddle is an inherently evil person (just see how he
> behaved when he was only 16). He cannot be transformed into a good
> person, regardless of his blood. But it is possible that just like he
> could not bear continuing to possess Harry at the end of OoP, because
> of Harry's emotions, likewise, having Harry's blood will somehow
> weaken him due to the inherent contradiction between his evil soul
> and the blood he took from Harry.

I don't agree there.  From what we're told, I get more of an impression that
he became what he is because he feels he was greatly betrayed by the world
at large.  (Or else, why would he specifically seek out his parents and
grandparents to kill them.  If he was simply evil, he wouldn't have cared
enough about them.  He killed them in revenge for what they did to him and
his mother.)

The greatest evil is love turned to hatred.  I feel that Tom was loved by
his mother and loved her back, yet she was taken from him at a very early
age, which turned him bitter.  That bitterness about his lot in life
festered, and he saw his father and grandparents as the first cause of his
life being so terrible.  He no longer had anyone in his life, as a young
boy, who cared about him... much less loved him.  By the time he got to
Hogwart's, he had pretty much made up his mind about the kind of person he
was to bevome.

>
> > I also think that if Harry shows mercy to LV, and that's the
> turning point,
>
> I can't see Harry showing mercy to Voldemort. But obviously LV can't
> be killed in the normal fashion, as he is immune to death. So he will
> die in some unexpected way - akin to how Harry destroyed Tom Riddle
> in CoS by destroying the diary.

Hence my theory that Riddle will be, ultimately, the one who destroys
Voldemort due to Harry's influence.

He had no reason whatsoever to spare Wormtail, and had every reason in the
world to kill him.  Yet he spared WT because it's who he is.

>
> > "Because..." Harry said, wiping a trickle of blood from his
> forehead, "I
> > couldn't.  I knew Tom Riddle was in there somewhere... before you
> became
> > him... you had to be..."
>
> Oh please. He has met Tom Riddle. He was that kid who set the
> basilisk on muggle-borns, who framed Hagrid, who possessed Ginny, who
> so enjoyed seeing Harry bitten by the basilisk that he was going to
> sit and watch him die slowly and painfully, who killed his family
> just for the heck of it.

Like I said, that was after Riddle had made his decision to become LV.  As I
also said, it's entirely possible that the boy who was Tom when he was still
with (and loved by) his mother can very well be buried deep inside LV.

Harry met the memory of Riddle, not the real Tom... Even Tom himself admits
that.  What was infused into the book was what LV WANTED to be infused into
the book, not necessarilly every part of himself.

Also, he met the memory of Tom before the ritual that brought LV back...
before his blood, and the mother's love, was used to help create his own
body.

Add to that the other ingredients, and you have an interesting mix.

Harry:  Blood which contains a mother's love...

Peter:  The hand of a wizard who owes a life debt to Harry.  A debd which,
as AD says, creates a very powerful bond between them. (paraphrasing, of
course.)

Tom Riddle Sr.:  The bones of a man who cast out his son and hated him for
what he was.

(Lessee... 1/3 love, 1/3 debt to Harry, and 1/3 hatred of wizards, and LV in
particular.  Should be interesting to see if this is significant at all.)

>
> Tom Riddle *is* Voldemort. They are one and the same. It is not a
> Star Wars like story where the evil guy has a good past. Tom Riddle
> is inherently evil and therefore will have to be destroyed.
>
> Salit
>

*chuckle* Looks like a Star Wars reference I made is coming back to haunt
me...

I am a strong believer that NOBODY is inherently evil.  If someone becomes
evil to that degree, there was a reason for it.

(I'll keep the statement simple right there, before we go off into long
discussions about comparative theology...)



Iggy McSnurd
the Prankster

"Even the darkest of nights have stars that twinkle in the sky... even if
you cannot see them."

-- Iggy McSnurd