Harry and the Crucio. W as: Bellatrix and the Crucio

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 94925

Jason quoted JKR who said:
> 'They are very keen to know whom I'm going to kill. Very, very, 
> very keen. That fascinates me. I think I understand why. They are 
> all really worried about Ron. They've seen so many films where the 
> main character's best friend died [that] I think they have become 
> incredibly wise and know the storyteller's tricks, basically. They 
> know that if Ron died, *Harry would have such a grudge, that it 
> would make it very personal.* (emphasis Jason) 

And then Jason commented :
> Enough of a grudge to really cause some pain?

Del :
Obviously not, because it didn't work when Bellatrix killed Sirius, 
so I see no reason why it would have changed anything if she had 
killed Ron or Hermione.
I wrote a post that touched that subject recently, here is the 
relevant excerpt :
> OotP (US), Ch. 36, p. 810
> 'Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?' she
> yelled. She had abandoned her baby voice now. 'You need to mean
> them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain — to enjoy it —
> righteous anger won't hurt me for long — I'll show you how it is
> done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson — '
Please notice that she doesn't say that righteous anger can't make
the Curse work : it just won't make it last for long. And the reason
for it is simple : righteous anger seeks punishment and only
punishment. Once the punishment is attained, righteous anger dies.
It's just like when my kid annoys me a bit too much, and I yell at
him in "righteous anger", and he starts crying. For a few fleeting
seconds, I'm deeply satisfied (serves you well), but then my anger
subsides because the punishment is attained, and I'm left with my
baby crying. What I feel then is everything from pain to remorse,
but certainly not anger, and most definitely not a further desire to
hurt him !!
In order to keep the Curse working, you have to want to make people
suffer *for no fault of theirs at all and even though they are in
pain* ! In order to make Crucio work, you have to get to the point
that you can *enjoy* torturing anyone *for a prolonged time without
any reason at all*. Harry hasn't done anything like that at all. He
never ever came up to Ron and start telling him out of the blue how
bad he is at Quidditch and then how ridiculous he looked in his
dress robes at the Yule Ball and then how much money there's in
Harry's vault but Harry will never give it to Ron, all the while
watching Ron go from hurt to shame to pain to pleading Harry to
please please stop ! (As for Hermione, Harry had an easy way to hurt
her : tell her that Dobby collected her hats. He never did it.)

Jason :
> And I was thinking, I'm absolutely positive DD could use crucio to 
> effect. The way I see it learning to use crucio might be like 
> learning the summoning charm. At first it takes concentration and 
> real focus, but after years of practice and learned focus it 
> becomes second nature.

Del :
I don't think you realise what you're saying :-)
Oh yes, it would "only" require some focus and concentration to 
learn Crucio. You would just have to focus enough to keep your 
victim's pain and pleading from touching you, and you would have to 
concentrate on hurting them again. You can learn that kind of 
behaviour, a lot of people do (abusive parents, torturers whether 
for legal purposes or not, etc ), but we generally do NOT consider 
that capacity as a *desirable* trait...
And no I don't think DD could Crucio anyone. From his duel with LV 
at the end of OoP, it's quite obvious that he still has some kind of 
compassion for Tom Riddle. And compassion just cannot go along with 
Cruciating people.

Jason :
> Now, no doubt Crucio would still require a little effort, I would 
> think full-grown wizards (esp DEs like Fake!Moody could manage it 
> without needing to concentrate too hard.) Seems to me that a full 
> grown Harry could manage it without being a horrible person inside.

Del :
This is akin to saying that you think a full grown Harry could 
manage to go and beat up and torture and mutilate any *innocent* 
passer-by without being a horrible person inside. I disagree with 
you, needless to say :-)

> Jason, who thinks he would have Expelliarmussed Bellatrix first 
> off and followed up with a Petrificus Totalus and then taken a 
> nice leisure in Crucio!

Del :
It wouldn't have changed anything. As Bellatrix says, Harry doesn't 
have enough sadism in him to make the Crucio really work.

Del, who is puzzled by Imperioed Viktor Cruciating Cedric, but 
supposes that the necessary sadism came from Crouch!Moody through 
the Imperius link.